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  1. #11
    boolady is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    [QUOTE=egoldber]This is really very typical newborn behavior. Really. Remember the 2 hours between feeding is start time to start time. So if he nurses for 40-50 minutes (normal!) then sleeps for an hour, then yes, when he wakes its time for the next feeding. [QUOTE]

    This was DD exactly, except sometimes she didn't even sleep for an hour. I just did what the mamas on here told me to do...keep letting her nurse as often as possible.

    Oh, and sleep, did you say? Good luck with that!
    Jen, mom to my silly monkey, 10/06

  2. #12
    o_mom is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Newborns eat what seems like 24/7, that's what they do. It does not indicate that your supply is low or you need to supplement.

    I would start with a few things:

    1. Rule out thrush. If you have cracked bleeding nipples and had antibiotics with the c/s, most likely there it thrush. It needs to be treated in both of you, preferably with Diflucan for two weeks for both of you. Screwing around trying Nystatin will most likely just prolong it. I really would push for them to treat it even if they don't see obvious signs. It should be apparent in 2-3 days if it is working.

    2. Ditch the shield if at all possible. It can be very painful, but one thing I found to really help was to use a soaking wet warm washcloth for 3-5 min on my nipple just before feeding. It softens up any scabs and makes it slightly more bearable.

    3. If he is gaining weight back, then it is probably time to start cutting out the supplements. It does take faith, as Lori said. Just feed from the breast every single time. No, you won't get much sleep, but parents of newborns don't get to sleep . If you can feed laying down, that can really help with getting rest. Even during the day, if you can lay down with him and catnap while he eats, it will really help your sanity.

    Good luch there. I feel your pain. We had many of the same issues with DS1 (10% loss, cracked bleeding nipples, etc.) and manged to make it through until he weaned at 14 mos.
    Mama to three boys ('03, '05, '07)

  3. #13
    JTsMom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    on the eating constantly being normal, and on the lying down while feeding- that is really key. Once you can master that, you'll be on easy street. That is why so many bf moms also co-sleep. It really is a lifesaver.

    I know you probably know this all already, but just in case you are in nb mom insanity right now- are you 100% sure he is latching correctly? If he's not opening EXTREMELY wide, that can contribute a LOT to the pain. Is he positioned well? My ped had me try sitting Jason up on my lap, facing me to eat. It didn't work really well for me, but I could see it working for a really aggressive sucker.

    Also, have you tried Soothies? A lot of mom swear by them.
    http://www.soothies.com/gelpads.html

    I think a lot of this is going to resolve itself really soon if you can just hang in there. Just stay in survival mode- eat, sleep repeat. Don't worry about anything that isn't neccessary for survival. Everything will settle down a bit in a few weeks.
    Lori
    Mom to Jason 05/05
    and Zachary 05/10

  4. #14
    JTsMom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Sorry, just have to add one more thing:

    I just BF him - didnt time it but abiut 20 min per side and he only too 1 oz of his bottle...

    IMHO, that is a really great sign, and I'd seriously think about ditching the supplements. If he stops peeing/gaining enough, you can always go back. Don't worry about the frequency thing, I promise it is normal, and it will slow down.
    Lori
    Mom to Jason 05/05
    and Zachary 05/10

  5. #15
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    Just wanted to add to the chorus. You've gotten some great advice here, you're doing just fine! Just have faith that it's working!!!

    DS was a slow nurser...it took him 45 minutes or more until he was about 6 months old. And he was nursing every 2 hours. Yeah, not a lot of free time in there! I went through a total breakdown when DS was right about a week old because I was SO frustrated with it. It just seemed like he was nursing constantly, I was totally hormonal, and it sucked. Hang in there, it WILL get better!

    The soothies are awesome! I didn't have as bad of nipple problems as you're having, but they were absolutely crucial. I also would express a little milk after each feeding and rub it on my nipples and let them air dry. It helped a ton.

    I agree about ditching the supplements. It really doesn't sound like you need it. And if the pumping is stressing you out, that's certainly not going to help your supply any. At that point, I would only pump once a day (first thing in the morning for the most output). That way, I was getting a pumping session in, but wasn't stressing about pumping the rest of the day!

    You're doing great, and just remember...even though it feels like it will never end, this truly IS a very short phase. Before you know it, you'll barely remember the pain and stress!
    Gaye
    Single mama to Tyler (5/06), RN, triathlete.

  6. #16
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    ITA with all the great advice you've received. I just want to add that steelcut oatmeal. barley, almonds, and fenugreek are really wonderful at boosting supply if you really think you need it.

  7. #17
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    bubbaray is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Both my girls nursed alllllllll the time as newborns. Seriously. I supplemented DD#1 via cup in the hospital on day #2, she refused bottles. She never did take a bottle, ever. She lost more than 10% of her birth weight and the dr's wanted me to supplement when she didn't gain it back by 2w. Well, she still refused the bottle and only wanted to nurse. Thankfully, we switched back to my regular dr, who wasn't at all concerned with her weight gain (she was 9lbs 3oz at birth). She told me to just keep nursing on demand. Next appt, DD#1 was back up to 95th percentile, where she remained until about 9m.

    DD#2 didn't lose as much weight after birth (was 8lbs 6oz) and no one ever mentioned supplementing at all with her.

    Both girls were jaundiced, but here (Canada) there seems to be less push to use lights and just nurse the baby a lot. There is a significantly higher BFg rate here, though, and far more dr and nurse supports for BFg than in the US. No freebie formula samples from the dr or hospital, in home nursing visits 24hrs after discharge, nursing/LC support via phone line 24/7, that sort of thing.

    I second omom's thoughts on thrush -- you need to deal with the bleeding nipples. Another possibility is improper latch. Just because the baby is nursing willingly and hungrily does NOT mean that the latch can't be improved.

    I never used nipple shields, but have been told by 2 LCs not to use them.

    DD#1 was EBFd to 12m and DD#2 was just weaned this past weekend (~16.5m). BOTH of them wanted to nurse 20min after a feed and basically 24/7 for a lot longer than a few days!

    I know you're tired, I had c/s with both girls. But, IMO, if you want to BF, you really have to focus on your goal to get through the first few weeks because you ARE going to be tired. Any dr who tells you to only BF a newborn every 2 hours is seriously on crack. I could see maybe doing that after a couple of months, but you have a lot of growth spurts in those first few weeks that really mean 24/7 on demand nursing in order to have your supply keep up with the growing baby.

    Your body will adjust to each growth spurt in about 3 days. So, my advice would be to focus on getting through each three days. Then get through a week. Then get through next week. I found that if I kept revising my BFg goals as I got more experienced, it really helped.

    I didn't pump to increase supply with either girl. In fact, I had an oversupply, which presents some nasty challenges of its own.

    Another thought, what about using breastmilk on your nipples instead of lanolin (obviously not a choice for you) or whatever cream you are using (which obviously isn't working). You could also ask your dr for a cream. I had a lactation dr (specialist in BFg) give me a cream that had an antifungal, antibacteria and steroid compounded. My issue wasn't cracked nipples (I had a milk bleb, trust me you don't want to research that), but IIRC she told me she also prescribed it for that.

    Some babies won't nurse well lying down. DD#1 was like a bat, she would have nursed in any position. DD#2 needed to be on a pillow with me sitting up and with her head slighly inclined. Any variation from that (as in cosleeping) and she was NOT happy camper. I'd try various positions and stick with what works for the baby. That way, his feeding will be the most efficient (which is what you want with cracked nipples!).
    Melissa

    DD#1: April 2004
    DD#2: January 2007

    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." Jack Layton 1950 - 2011

  8. #18
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    Just wanted to add to check his bottom lip. It should be sticking out, not in. This was the cause of my pain with both kiddos. Once they learned to stick the lip out, the pain immediately stopped.

    Hugs and hang in there! It's a hard road in the beginning but gets easier and is well worth it.
    Truth does not become more true by virtue of the fact that the entire world agrees with it, nor less so even if the whole world disagrees with it.
    --Moses Maimonides

  9. #19
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    Thanks to everyone for your help and input. The cream I'm using IS helping - at least it makes it feel a LOT better.

    things I've noticed today - he doesn't stick his chin/bottom lip out really well. I'm trying to work on that with him. When he does, the pain is a LOT better.

    I truly think its a latch issue, not a fungal issue. But I will be on the lookout for that. I only got 1 dose of antibiotics, directly before surgery. My OB doesn't believe in continuing antibiotics JUST because of surgery unless there is a temp or other signs of infection.

    The pumping isn't stressing me out too much - the supplementation is. BUT today we cut back to 1 ounce of EBM/formula mix for supplementation. I think he's really growing right now, so just cutting that cold turkey doesn't sit well with me. I did not limit his breastfeeding time on each brest, used the nipple shield ONLY on the one nipple that REALLY hurts and only WHEN it was really hurting.

    The soothies - at least the ones by playtex have lanolin in them, so they aren't an option. BUT I did get some of the gel pads by medela. My nipples aren't so big that I can't cut the pad diagonally and still use it as they are horribly expensive!

    I did call LLL, but no one has called me back. I'm going to try the other names tomorrow. And if I'm still having issues at his next ped appointment, I'm going to request a lactation consult.

    Hopefully things are on the upswing...and yes, hormonal hell!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbaray
    You could also ask your dr for a cream. I had a lactation dr (specialist in BFg) give me a cream that had an antifungal, antibacteria and steroid compounded.
    Sounds like Dr. Jack Newman's nipple cream. It's described here under #2 (All Purpose Nipple Ointment).
    Gaye
    Single mama to Tyler (5/06), RN, triathlete.

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