Breastfeeding session - how long before you call it quits?? UPDATE #18

[joules]

Sorry this is so long. I'm so new to this and not sure if I'm doing the right thing for DS.

DS is 9 days old (and oh so precious!!). When he was born via c-section (3/11-thursday) he was 6 pounds even. On his pediatrician (not our normal one) checkup on Monday, the nurse weighed him and jotted down the wrong weight (2.45kg instead of 2.55kg) - we didn't find out until later. So when the Dr. came in, she was VERY worried since he lost 10% of his body weight. We were SO scared. She said this was a "red flag". And suggested we started feeding him 60ml of formula every 2 hours and check back the next day. She gave us some formula and a bottle so we could start feeding right away. Well after she was gone we did the math (i saw the pound measurement when the nurse weighed him - 5lb10oz, DH and i did the math and it was only 6% weight loss). THEN we figured out what the nurse did. Dr. was already w/another patient so we couldn't speak with her...left a message with the nurse. OF COURSE the nurse didn't tell her she made a mistake. We later called and explained the situation to her. She said to not feed him the 60ml every 2 hours anymore. But of course by this point, DH and I were still VERY shaken up even tho we knew the math was off....i guess we were shocked and then so paranoid.

Went to pediatrician (our normal one, we like this one so much better) yesterday (Friday) and DS was 5lb 14ounces (almost back to birth weight!!). Dr. said we are doing great (whew!!) and asked about the feeding. I said i feed on one side and pump the other. On the side I feed at, I also SNS (feed with tube) with previously pumped milk. This way i know about how much he's eating b/c i can measure out what I pumped. And then I also supplement with formula (thru SNS or bottle given to us on Monday) when needed. I get about 15-20mL per boob from the pump. She wanted us to start trusting the breastfeeding process and try to exclusively BF - and go back for weigh in Tues to see how it goes. She asked us to feed 20mins per side each time (total 40mins feeding).

So yesterday the first feeding after the appt, I tried just feeding from the boob. Well I fed him for FOUR HOURS! Feed him from both boobs for about an hour total (he's a fighter sometimes and then falls asleep so the whole process takes awhile). After the hour he gets the content look on his precious face but when i lay him down to sleep, he wakes up almost immediately and is hungry (all the feeding cues), so we repeated this process for about 3.5 hours. At that point I gave up and fed him 28mL previously pumped milk in a bottle w/slow flow nipple (we never used the bottle before the scare - we never even had one until that first Dr. gave us one...then we used it as a last resort - like late night feedings AFTER BF if we had to supplement with formula or pumped milk). He was still hungry so I continued to BF for a bit then at the end of 4 hours gave him 10mL of formula from bottle. That did it - he was full and slept like a baby.

Last night the same thing happened....I tried for 2 hours. Then broke down, cried a few tears out of frustration. And then had DH feed him some formula from bottle. He slept like a baby again. I tried to pump and got about 30mL total - mostly from the breast I first fed with - so it had been making milk for about an hour before I pumped it.

So........this leads me to believe that maybe my milk supply still isn't enough yet? Should I keep supplementing with formula for now? Next BF session, how long should I feed for before I throw in the towel and supplement (either formula or previously pumped milk). An hour? two hours? four hours?

If you read this far, THANK YOU!!!! I keep hearing it gets easier....just waiting for that to happen - I know I have a long way to go since it's only been a week! haha.

eta: I know the bottle shouldn't have been introduced....but at this point do I still use the bottle as a last resort if I need to supplement after a marathon feeding session? Or do i use the SNS? I'm trying to stick to SNS...but not sure about the bottle.

[Snow mom]

It's not unusual for a BF baby to eat what seems all day long. Seriously, I think this is the number one thing that new moms don't realize. I remember feeding DD for what seemed like 20 of the 24 hours of the day when she was tiny. It sounds like your DS is doing great. He's almost back up to his birth weight at 9 days and his birth weight was likely inflated by IV fluids if you had a CS. Having to feed him often and for long periods of time isn't a sign of a poor supply or need to supplement. If you are going back for a weight check soon I might try only BF him (no SNS or bottles with either pumped milk or formula) and see how he does. He's nursing often because he's building up your supply. If you have help try just concentrating on feeding him. Let someone else take care of everything else. Drink plenty of water and try to stay rested. That will help with your supply. You might also want to look for a LC in your area if you are feeling uneasy with what he is getting. LLL is also a great resource. You can find a local group here: http://www.llli.org/. You don't need to wait for a meeting if you need advice. The leaders can be contacted at any time and can provide you with help and reassurance. It sounds like you are doing a great job. Keep up the good work.

[egoldber]

Seriously, I think this is the number one thing that new moms don't realize.

If you want to exclusively breastfeed, you need to trust your baby and your body and stop supplementing. Baby staying at the breast for a long time, including what may be hours is truly normal in the early days. This is how your baby builds your supply. Nursing is a supply and demand operation.

I would read this: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/index.html

especially this section: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing.html

Also, every baby is different. Some babies are very efficient at the breat (although not many 9 day old babies). Some babies are snackers and take their time.

I would also HIGHLY encourage you to find a breastfeeding support group. I really recommend your local LLL group.

Congrats!

[SnuggleBuggles]

I would not supplement. I really don't think that he needs it based on what you have said so far. I think you have some (typical, normal!) new parent worries but that I think you should trust the process. If you offer the breast only then your body will get all the signals it needs since you are feeding on demand.

It could very well be growth spurt time too and it feels like non stop nursing. It is, in fact, non stop nursing. But that is what you and he really need to do.

Another thing to try is to feed a normal feeding breast only. When the sucking and swallowing really trickle off then take him off. When you take him off, if he starts to fuss, try something besides nursing. Have your dh stick baby in a sling and walk around. When my ds1 was a few weeks old I really treated almost all crying with feeding. My FIL suggested that maybe we try something else. FIl and dh took over one of those times that I was sure he was hungry but couldn't really be since he just ate. They took him for a walk and he totally calmed down. No hunger cues, completely content.

Really though, for the first 6 weeks growth spurts can happen often and baby will need to eat all the time. But, after a day or 2 of crazy, non stop eating they mellow out and often sleep really well for a day or 2! You just need to ride it out so your body gets all the cues to keep up with the supply you need. If he really is hungry and getting food from somewhere else then your body doesn't know that it didn't make enough.

I think you should go breast only- no pumping, no formula. Like your ped said, trust the process. If you are feeding on demand, not watching the clock then odds are your supply will be just what your baby needs. The ounce #s just don't mean much because your nursing relationship is unique and it's hard to say what your supply is like based on them. Humans have succeeded in continuing the species on breastfeeding alone- no SNS, no pumps, no formula... so sometimes I think we have made it more complicated than it needs to be and we second guess ourselves way too much.

Have you read kellymom.com yet? Best nursing info I can think of. Check out the section on the early weeks of bf'ing:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/index.html

It really sounds like you are doing fine. Check out diaper counts as they are your best indicators right now. Hand baby off between feedings and see if a change of arms and scenery makes a difference and gives you a break between feedings.

GL!
Beth

[wellyes]

Your ped sounds awesome by the way! I'm so glad that those early scary moments turned out to not be a problem.

Keep breastfeeding to keep up and build your supply. BF is your life for the moment - it's hard, I know, but trust me when I say this phase is over in a blink and you'll probably even miss it.

[Nooknookmom]

If you want to exclusively breastfeed, you need to trust your baby and your body and stop supplementing. Baby staying at the breast for a long time, including what may be hours is truly normal in the early days. This is how your baby builds your supply. Nursing is a supply and demand operation.

I would read this: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/index.html

especially this section: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing.html

Also, every baby is different. Some babies are very efficient at the breat (although not many 9 day old babies). Some babies are snackers and take their time.

I would also HIGHLY encourage you to find a breastfeeding support group. I really recommend your local LLL group.

Congrats!

Everything she just said, I have been there. Stop supplementing, it kills your supply. I stopped supplementing at 3 months and my supply turned around. Also I took Fenugreek to keep up my supply.

It is very hard, frustrating and emotional, but you CAN do it!

DD is almost 3 and we still have "boobie" at night, I never thought I'd make it past the first month.

This board and the links provided to you will be of great comfort as well. Many ladies will have great suggestions to help you along.

Keep your chin up!!!!

[goldenpig]

Congrats on the new baby! Good for you for sticking with the breastfeeding! It is tough sometimes. I agree with what everyone else and your pediatrician said. It's so easy to worry that your milk supply isn't enough, baby isn't getting enough milk etc. especially when you can't measure how much he drinks by BFing. But in most cases it's just fine and you have to trust that your body will respond to meet demand. I also have a 1-week old and he also seems like he can never get enough, waking every 1 to 1.5 hours (especially at night!) to feed. He seems like he is constantly hungry. I am sooo tired, but it is starting to get better now that the milk is coming in, last night he actually slept for two 3-hour stretches! We had to supplement for a few days w/ formula because he had high bilirubin. And I had to supplement my first daughter for a week because she lost >10% and my milk took a long time to come in. We struggled and struggled with her weight, I felt like there was something wrong with my milk supply, even tried the SNS, fenugreek etc. too. Turns out it wasn't me, it was her (silent reflux). I ended up pumping sooo much milk that she never drank. Anyhow, she's healthy now, and still nursing a little now, so it all worked out fine.

From what you posted, your baby sounds normal (he didn't actually lose 10% and is gaining) and seems like you should give the breastfeeding alone a try so that your body will respond to match what he needs. The more you supplement the less milk you will make. The wanting to feed all day esp in the beginning and during growth spurts is totally normal. My pediatrician also recommends 15-20 min a side, both sides per feed and start on the last side at the next feed. Don't worry about pulling him off after 30 min and giving you body a break so you can make milk for the next feed. Also you need to get some rest if possible so your body can produce milk, and sleep when the baby does. Finally, remember that the pump is not as efficient as your baby at extracting milk so he is probably getting much more than you think when you BF. Don't obsess about how much you are able to pump (I don't get much at all when I pump because this baby is ravenous and he's drinking it all!). Good luck and definitely look at kellymom.com and contact a lactation consultant or La Leche League for help if you need it. Hang in there!

ETA: As for your question about supplementing, I would try not supplementing during the day or after each feed, but maybe your husband can feed him a bottle of pumped milk for one of the night sessions to let you get a longer stretch of sleep. That's totally OK and the extra sleep should help your supply!

[KrisM]

I agree with others. I know DS1 had a growth spurt at 10 days and it about did me in - it was DH's first day back to work and all I did was nurse.

I then did figure out other things to do with the baby, other than feed him. That helped, too.

You're doing great and you'll figure it out. I would agree about not supplementing though.

[smiles33]

I agree with all the PP and just wanted to say that I hope your DH and others are offering TONS of support in real life. That was the hardest part as a first-time mom--questioning yourself and being insecure and easily persuaded by others. My mom kept saying, "She looks like she's starving! Are you SURE you don't want to give her some formula?" But DH supported me and would reply for me, "No, DD1 is fine, we did the weigh-feed-weigh with the lactation consultant and there is PLENTY of milk." If everyone around me was questioning my supply, I am sure I would have just given up as my mom told me she never had enough supply and I just assumed I might have the same problem, too.

Hugs to you and hope you get through this soon! I BF'ed DD1 past a year, and I never thought I'd get past a week during the first few days.

[MomToOne]

I totally agree with what everyone and your ped has said: Trust the process!. Give it a chance. You can always supplement later, but you can't take it back if you start supplementing now (I hope that made sense, I don't know how else to say it)

I used to bf DD for a good 3-4 hours. It was the only peace and quiet I got actually. You learn how to set yourself up and make use of your immobile time. I would sit on the couch and put the baby on the boppy around me, the laptop on a pillow and just stay there browsing forums for hours. Other moms I know would watch tv, read or knit.

You do learn to slow way down during this time. There's just nothing you can do but just sit there, and you start accepting that. Like a pp said, bfing is your job right now, and it's a job because it's really hard and takes all day!

Good luck and congrats on your new baby!

Oh yeah, and it does get easier. Take it 12 hours at a time if that helps.