What do you guys thiink of the teachers strikes going on in Wisconsin?

[bubbaray]

Its union busting couched in the cloak of fiscal responsibility. The political agenda has nothing to do with money from the reports I've read.

It IS possible to balance public budgets and have strong unions. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

It is also possible to have strong unions and GREAT teachers. There needs to be discipline and termination procedures for the rare bad teacher, but getting rid of teachers unions is NOT going to keep the good teachers.

[citymama]

I am APPALLED by what's going on in Wisconsin and Ohio. If I could be sitting with the protesters, I would be. It represents an evisceration of workers' rights and I absolutely am in solidarity with the protesters.

[citymama]

Its union busting couched in the cloak of fiscal responsibility. The political agenda has nothing to do with money from the reports I've read.

It IS possible to balance public budgets and have strong unions. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

It is also possible to have strong unions and GREAT teachers. There needs to be discipline and termination procedures for the rare bad teacher, but getting rid of teachers unions is NOT going to keep the good teachers.

I couldn't agree more!

[JBaxter]

I admit that I am not a fan of unions. I think that they had their place and have really greatly improved things for workers. My g'pa was a factory worker in the first half of the 1900s and was union. The improvements like better work conditions, hours and benefits are great- like people aren't forced to work 20 hour days in dangerous conditions. But, some of those things are typical now. I also have some issues with teachers' unions enabling bad teachers to keep their jobs. So, I am interested to see how things go in WI.

Beth

I grew up in a union family father, grandfather uncles etc but when though times hit everyone needs to play by the same rules. the union does not allow that. my DH had taken furlough weeks, pay cut, decreased company contrubution to his 401k etc all to keep people from being laid off from his company. If they were union it would not have been allowed and a big chunk of people would be laid off.
I agree with Beth

[ray7694]

It's time to break the unions down, fire the teachers that suck (or the ones that choose to not show up for work) and balance the budget. The teachers get fabulous benefits and should have to chip in towards those--the rest of us in the real world do.

And not all WI schools are good. The ones here suck. Big time..

I don't think the WI deficit is because of teachers that suck. More like politicians that suck.

[jenfromnj]

Its union busting couched in the cloak of fiscal responsibility. The political agenda has nothing to do with money from the reports I've read.

It IS possible to balance public budgets and have strong unions. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.

It is also possible to have strong unions and GREAT teachers. There needs to be discipline and termination procedures for the rare bad teacher, but getting rid of teachers unions is NOT going to keep the good teachers.

I agree with bubbaray. I know here in NJ the governor has taken strong aim at the teachers union and the teachers/union seem to be receiving a disproportionate amount of blame for our state's current fiscal crisis, and it has created some real ugliness. I do agree that sometimes unions can complicate things, and sometimes union leadership does not always keep the best interest of all the workers in mind (seemingly), but that does not necessarily mean that unions aren't worthwhile or valuable.

[arivecchi]

I thought this was an insightful column on the subject from someone on the right side of the spectrum:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/op...s.html?_r=1&hp

[crl]

I am pro union. I was a union steward for our union when I was an attorney working for the federal government. We negotiated things like actually receiving comp time if we worked more then 40 hours a week. And things like using low voc paint when they were doing construction work in our offices. I think those are ongoing issues that are the central mission of unions, making sure people get paid for their work and have safe work environments.

In general, I think people who try to blame unions and want to bust unions are just too damn lazy to do their jobs and negotiate with unions. For example, when I complained about the non stop changes in bus drivers for my ds in SF (he was special Ed and had a crying melt down everytime the driver changed, which was every two weeks), the head of transportation blamed the bus drivers' union because their contract called for rebidding the routes every two weeks based on seniority. When I called bs and said you should have negotiated a different contract, I am positive there is something else they wanted you can have used to negotiate some stability for the students, he got all flustered and started blustering about other things.

All that is a very long way of saying I don't know the details of this well enough to comment specifically, but I refuse to assume that unions are wrong or bad or to blame for unfortunate situations.

Catherine

[larig]

This is totally about busting the union, not about budget saving measures. The govenor took office with a surplus, and gave tax breaks to businesses that caused the deficit. this is a deficit of his own making. NOW, to fix his mess, he wants to break the unions.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ker-rights.php

I'm surprised how anti-union people seem to be. We owe unions much gratitude. Like the 40 hour work week? Thank a union. Like child labor laws, thank a union. People seem to think that businesses and corporations have workers' best interests at heart, well, they don't, they're about making money. Workers alone have NO power. Together they have a little, but if many people have their way the unions, upon whose backs most middle class people's lives have been built, will exist no more. It's a sad state of affairs when the very workers who need protecting are bad mouthing them.

And if you want some education on what a teachers' union really means to teachers read this post by a guy who is an AP history teacher in Maryland and a union officer (a teacher of the year. It's a sad read as he discusses the very real possibility that he may not be able to afford to continue teaching.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/0...rrible-reality

And let's face it, unions are doing their best to keep their members' heads above water. Annie, CA is in terrible shape, if you hadn't had a union things would be far worse for government employees there. The unions didn't put us in this position--bad governmental decisions, poor economy, etc., did.

And I keep reading people talk about how unions are protecting bad teachers, well, I just have to say respectfully that I doubt you fully understand how tenure works. School law is very complicated--there are classes in it (for educators), lawyers specialize in it, and the laws vary from state to state. Unions do not want to keep bad teachers around--it reflects badly on all of us, but they do want people's due process rights protected. There are perfectly good ways to fire people--and if an administrator is too inept to get it done, then maybe he/she is the one who should be fired. But seriously, this is one reason why I never want to teach again. This talk makes me as a former educator want no part in the thankless job of teaching people's children who have these attitudes toward teachers and their unions. I'm seriously pissed. I wish I'd never set foot in this thread. It's very hard to be an educator (even a former one) and read this crap from people I respect in so many other ways.

And yeah, if I was anywhere close to Madison I'd be right there with them. SOLIDARITY!

[bubbaray]

I'm surprised how anti-union people seem to be. We owe unions much gratitude. Like the 40 hour work week? Thank a union. Like child labor laws, thank a union. People seem to think that businesses and corporations have workers' best interests at heart, well, they don't, they're about making money. Workers alone have NO power.

I'm considered pretty right wing politically, but I completely disagree with union busting. Virtually EVERYONE who works for a living and is not royalty or landed gentry should thank their lucky stars that unions changed the shape of the Industrial Revolution. Things that we consider "normal" working conditions (paid vacation, workplace safety, child labor laws etc) did NOT exist prior to unions forming.

I done management side collective bargaining "against" a VERY powerful union in a highly adversarial labor and economic context. We negotiated a fair deal that everyone at the table could live with and averted a nasty strike. It CAN be done.