"House GOP Wants To Use Tax Code To Curb Abortions"

[gatorsmom]

Well let's go to the polls.... http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/us/02abortion.html

The number of people who support legal abortion has declined slightly since Obama took office. But there are still more prochoice than not.

Yes, and that's only one poll, which the article states contradicts other recent polls.

From the article, bolded mine:

Polls conducted by some other organizations within the last few months have found opinion on abortion to be more stable. In an ABC News/Washington Post poll in June, for example, 55 percent of respondents said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, while 43 percent said it should be illegal in all or most cases — close to the average in their polls since 1995.

Times/CBS News polls have also found essentially no change in Americans’ overall views of abortion. In a Times/CBS News poll in June (which asked a differently worded question than the Pew or ABC/Post polls did), 36 percent said abortion should be generally available; 41 percent said it should be available but under stricter limits than it is now; and 21 percent said it should not be permitted — close to the average in New York Times or CBS News polls dating back 20 years.

I agree that people can and will change their minds, but see little hard evidence that MORE people become anti-choice than become pro-choice. It appears that the people who change their mind one way or the other are evenly split between the two movements.

You'll have to forgive me if I'm extremely skeptical of any polls or statistics provided by pro-choicers. Why would you ever present any statistics that DIDN"T support your side?

[mommylamb]

No analogy is perfect, but take the circumcision debate, for example. Many more pro-circ become anti-circ than vice versa. If there were many pro-lifers who became pro-choice, you'd be able to google that topic and come up with many, wouldn't you? They'd have some speaking out on the pro-choice side, wouldn't they?

I think Green Tea and ICUnurse have pretty much said what I would have said too, but the circ debate is totally different. A lot more people start off pro-circ because that has been the societal norm here for so long, so it makes sense that there are more people who would change from pro to anti circ because there are so many more people starting out in the pro corner. totally different from abortion.

As far as I know, the stats quoted above are legitimate ones. And, I think a lot of people identify as pro life, but will say, "I'm pro-life, but only for myself" which basically means they're pro choice.

[Green_Tea]

You'll have to forgive me if I'm extremely skeptical of any polls or statistics provided by pro-choicers. Why would you ever present any statistics that DIDN"T support your side?

I posted this information in response to Pandora's assertion that more people become anti-choice after being pro-choice than the other way around. The numbers of people on both sides has remained essentially unchanged for at least the past 16 years. There hasn't been a big swing one way or another.

I am not sure why you believe the numbers don't support pro-choicers, though - both the polls the NYT mentioned show that the majority of Americans support some form of legal abortion access.

[ellies mom]

And, I think a lot of people identify as pro life, but will say, "I'm pro-life, but only for myself" which basically means they're pro choice.

This is my best friend. She believes that abortion is wrong and would never have one but doesn't want to deprive women of legal access to safe abortions. But even though she holds a pro-choice position, she admits that she can't bring herself to say that she is pro-choice.

[gatorsmom]

I am not sure why you believe the numbers don't support pro-choicers, though - both the polls the NYT mentioned show that the majority of Americans support some form of legal abortion access.

Actually, I didn't read the stats provided. I said I'm skeptical of info provided by prochoicers. Of course anyone who is adamantly Prochoice is going to provide stats that support the Prochoice side! I'm prolife, which is where the skepticism comes in.

[Green_Tea]

Actually, I didn't read the stats provided. I said I'm skeptical of info provided by prochoicers. Of course anyone who is adamantly Prochoice is going to provide stats that support the Prochoice side! I'm prolife, which is where the skepticism comes in.

I'm sorry, I misunderstood what you were asking me, or rather the tone in which it was being asked. I took your question at face value.

I understand why you'd be mistrustful of information supplied by someone on the opposite side of the movement, but I think that the polls the NYT article refers to are largely considered to be respected sources of unbiased information. Do you have a different source of information about how Americans feel about abortion that you think is less biased?

(ETA - I am not being sarcastic or snarky - I'm truly curious about other sources for statistics.)

[Green_Tea]

Actually, I didn't read the stats provided. I said I'm skeptical of info provided by prochoicers. Of course anyone who is adamantly Prochoice is going to provide stats that support the Prochoice side! I'm prolife, which is where the skepticism comes in.

Also, why would you discount the information provided without even knowing what the source was? I am happy to consider information provided by anti-choicers if it comes from unbiased, well recognized sources.

[wellyes]

Actually, I didn't read the stats provided. I said I'm skeptical of info provided by prochoicers. Of course anyone who is adamantly Prochoice is going to provide stats that support the Prochoice side! I'm prolife, which is where the skepticism comes in.

It was from the nonpartisan, independent Pew Research Center. I didn't dig for the info. The poll was referenced in the New York times and CNN among others. I just googles 'abortion poll'. Hits came up from 2007, 2005 and 2008. I just grabbed the '08 and linked it.

[gatorsmom]

Do you have a different source of information about how Americans feel about abortion that you think is less biased?

I could probably find one but I'm home alone with 4 kids today and trying to clean my house! Which is like going 3 steps forward, 2 steps back, kwim?

Also, why would you discount the information provided without even knowing what the source was? I am happy to consider information provided by anti-choicers if it comes from unbiased, well recognized sources.

Well, see, that's the thing. I don't know of too many unbiased sources. Occasionally I have been privy to goings on in the Catholic Church that when put in the paper was subtlely twisted into something it wasn't really by the Associated Press. These weren't big, sensational issues, mind you, they didn't even merit the front page. But they were twisted so subtlely that they weren't exactly accurate and they weren't exactly false, iykwim. They just didn't portray the Church's decision in a fair light, imo. So, even seemingly unbiased, even well recognized sources make me skeptical. It takes alot of researching for myself (and collecting info from both sides) until I'm satisfied I have the truth. And I just dont' have the time for that today.

[kijip]

I have to disagree. When things are sensitive, it seems that, for the most part, people switch both ways. You have ones who get more outraged for some reason (now a parent, saw an abortion video, etc) and others who become more open to other ways of thinking (understand how hard pregnancy and parenting can be, chose to have one themselves for whatever reason and realized the decision isn't easy or singular, etc). Best I can compare it to is the Terri Schaivo situation - for as many people who came out to "protect" her life, you had just as many people finally talking to their families/doctors about what limits they want for their existence and how/when they want to die. Both difficult choices, subjective in nature as to what is "life", with strong proponents on both sides that make people really think about it in a personal way vs a generalization.

Well said.

I caution against generalizing personal opinion shifts to the whole of our culture. Because of my religious background, most of the people I know personally who had an abortion actually were strongly or slightly pro-life before they did so. Does this mean anything substantive outside of my circle? Nope. It just means that I happened to spend my formative years around a lot of pro-life people because a substantial part of my social life outside of school was quarterly church camps. This community were the most of the friends close enough to me that I would know even if they were pregnant and in distress. After I helped one, more found their way to me even if we had not been the closest of friends.