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  1. #1
    Uno-Mom's Avatar
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    Default A child doesn't feel pain - teaching empathy?

    This question is not related to anybody I serve professionally. It came from a friend who asked me because of my profession - but I've never encountered this before. Maybe some of you have - I'd love to hear what you tried and what worked.

    Not to give too much private info about my friend's child, but: DC is five. They have a processing condition that interfers with their ability to feel pain. Other than that, DC thinks...um...uniquely ... but well. DC is pretty bright. DC is now experimenting with naughtiness, like any child. This involves hitting, scratching, kicking others.

    They've hit a behavioral dead end recently because they can't figure out how to help DC understand why that behavior hurts others. It wouldn't hurt DC, so DC just doesn't get it.

    What do you think?

    Often bumbling mother to baby girl "Sprog"
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    i don't have any official thought because i'm certainly not a behavioral specialist, but here's my unofficial thought -

    any reason they can't just explain - 'dc, people don't like it when you bite/kick/whatever. we try our best not to do stuff people don't like. the rule is 'no biting'.' because it sorta doesn't matter if *i'd* like walking naked down the street or driving drunk or whatever. other people wouldn't & i'm supposed to respect their wishes. plus this might play into the rule-following for the sake of rule-following that this age sometimes likes. so that's my thought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by karstmama View Post
    i don't have any official thought because i'm certainly not a behavioral specialist, but here's my unofficial thought -

    any reason they can't just explain - 'dc, people don't like it when you bite/kick/whatever. we try our best not to do stuff people don't like. the rule is 'no biting'.' because it sorta doesn't matter if *i'd* like walking naked down the street or driving drunk or whatever. other people wouldn't & i'm supposed to respect their wishes. plus this might play into the rule-following for the sake of rule-following that this age sometimes likes. so that's my thought.
    Hmm. That is a good idea. I don't actually know this child well, so I'm not sure how they do with other sorts of rules. I think the aggressive stuff is coming out in a burst of anger but I wonder if they could tie it to other rules she knows.
    (And BTW - I posted my question to get help from parents ... because parents are smarter than behavior specialists! Trust me on that. )

    Often bumbling mother to baby girl "Sprog"
    Born November, 2009

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    This is probably not helpful at all. But your post made me think of our dog trainer's explanation of puppies nipping. They don't get that it hurts people because it doesn't hurt other dogs with their fur and thick skin. So her advice is a really dramatic OUCH whenever the puppy nips. I do NOT mean to imply that kids are the same as dogs, but sometimes as a parent I do think techniques cross over (no attention to bad behavior, consistency, etc). I guess I am wondering if the child feels no pain at all or if it is just muted? If it is just muted maybe some technique like that OUCH that makes the pain others feel clearer to the child? Not sure if that is helpful at all.

    Catherine

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    The child might not get pain, but certainly the child has likes and dislikes, right?

    I'd explain it the same way you'd explain why not to knock over someone's structure, or step on their drawing: they don't like it, and if you want them to be your friend or play with you, you want them to like the things you do. So you shouldn't do it.
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    I think a bright 5yo can grasp that certain behaviors will make playmates mad and not want to be friends anymore. So while the child can't understand the hurt of hitting, he/she will likely understand the hurt of being excluded or avoided as a playmate if he/she continues this particular behavior. Just working with my 5yo I've seen she is beginning to get some of the nuances of social issues.
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    Melaine is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Sometimes you just have to teach children not to do things, period. We had to teach the girls not to hit, bite, kick, etc. long before they understood exactly what pain they were causing, for instance. Especially with twins, you encounter some of that at a very young age. Like pulling each other's hair at six months old.
    Unless there is a major learning delay, a five year old can understand the basic concept that hitting is mean, and we are not allowed to be mean. My children haven't learned not to hit, bite or kick because it hurts other people, but because I have taught them it is wrong, ykwim?
    I'm not trying to over-simplify a serious issue, but that's just the approach I would take.

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    LMPC is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeofUs View Post
    The child might not get pain, but certainly the child has likes and dislikes, right?

    I'd explain it the same way you'd explain why not to knock over someone's structure, or step on their drawing: they don't like it, and if you want them to be your friend or play with you, you want them to like the things you do. So you shouldn't do it.
    This was the direction I was going to go in. Working on empathy outside of the pain realm and then generalizing it back to something that the DC is less able to relate to. So teaching him or her that we do unto others [fill in the rest]...e.g., we don't push others because we don't like to be pushed ourselves....we don't take others items because we don't like it when others take things from us. We don't do things that cause others pain because we would not want that done to us (and if empathy is established, that DC won't have to actually *feel* the pain, but only relate to the idea that it is unpleasant to others).
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    Thanks, everybody!

    Do you think those same approaches would work as well when the aggression is towards her grown-ups? I'm kind of thinking that, thought her parents and babysitter can't give out relationship consequences like playmates could - they could shape the behavior pretty well by just giving her a dead pan, blank response.

    I'm not sure if she's totally oblivious to pain or if it's just very diminished.

    Often bumbling mother to baby girl "Sprog"
    Born November, 2009

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    I think parents and caregivers can give relationship consequences...at 5 yo I would think that hypothetical-type responses would work. For example, "I don't push you, so please do not push me!" And assuming they don't use corporal punishment...you can sub in "hit" "bite" or whatever aggressive action is taking place. I get the point of the not responding (blank stare) but I think it might move along faster if a simple statement were added.
    Mommy to a total chatterbox
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    DD 10/08

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