Green Eggs and Ham

[MamaMolly]

Maybe this will help with levels: http://www.readinga-z.com/

[maestramommy]

When I was a kid, I consistently tested MILES ahead of my grade level in reading. I was reading at an 8th or 9th grade level by the end of 3rd grade. But I didn't read a single chapter book until I was in 4th grade. I started with Judy Blume and Beverly Cleary books. Now those books would be considered downright babyish for a 4th grader. But today's 4th graders aren't actually better readers - they're just being encouraged to read thicker, more mature books at a much earlier age. I find it particularly ironic in the context of all the things modern parents rail against, particularly certain TV shows and encouraging independent problem solving (and independence in general). Reading seems to be the only area in which parents want their kid to act much older than they actually are.

How funny! I read Tales of a 4th grade nothing in 3rd grade, but didnt' discover Henry Huggins (my first Cleary book) until 4th grade. Browsing at the library. I saw the cover with Henry carrying Ribsy in an open box and thought it looked interesting. Loved the book so much I read every Cleary book I could get my hands on. Followed the Ramona series even though I was probably way too "old" for it by the later books. But I still loved them. And yeah, I tested way above grade level all the time too for reading? What did that really mean? Not much, except that maybe I like to read??

The first two books I read to myself were Bible Stories for Children, and Good News for Children, between the ages of 5-7. Plenty of blood and guts and dark themes there. By 8 I was reading Children's Literature, with all the fairytales full of unemancipated women and brawny and brainless but slightly wily men, lol! But they were all short stories. I think chapter books would've been a bit too long.

[ett]

I think this an interesting and insightful observation. I took a reading class and a child lit class last semester, and it really changed the way I view the way our kids are learning to read and WHAT they're reading. There are a ton of really amazing picture books out there for kids who are in 1st-5th grade. They have challenging text and vocabulary, tackle dense, meaty topics, and are beautifully illustrated. But because parents (much more so than teachers, from what I've observed) are so preoccupied with getting their kids to read chapter books, these amazing picture books are often completely overlooked.

ITA. My boys are 5 and 8 but we still check out a lot of picture books from the library. DS1 reads a lot of chapter books but still enjoys reading picture books too.

[g-mama]

The second grade level is ABSURD. My DS (who is an was an early reader, but lacks many other skills) chewed Green Eggs and Ham up and spit it out at age 3-4.

I'm guessing you are joking? I hope so.

Not that your son could read it at that young age, but to imply that is the norm and to say it in a condescending and flip way as it applies to other kids?

[g-mama]

I also wonder about the idea of introducing books that are much more advanced in content than the child's age. Now this is a little OT, but I asked about the HP series since there is so much interest in introducing them to kids nowadays. One of the comments I heard was that just because a kid is capable of reading (like, decoding) HP doesn't mean they are ready to read it. The content is pretty heavy stuff, and not always age appropriate, even with the absence of sex, language, etc. As parents on this board many of us are extremely vigilant when it comes to holding back certain kinds of TV programming. Shouldn't we be just as thoughtful with books?

I couldn't agree more. A third grade teacher at our school, who is very well respected, talked this year to her class about this very issue. She is utterly *against* third graders reading HP as it is just not appropriate content for them. Just as we try to protect our kids from forms of media that we view as "too old" for them, we should protect them from reading material that they are not ready for. Instead, I think MANY kids read these books and their parents encourage it because it is the "cool" thing to read and implies they are smart or something.

[ray7694]

In our district reading level is more than just reading the text. It includes comprehension, responsding to reading, as well as reading the words. All of our students are given a Fountas and Pinnell assessment to determine reading level. They have written many great books.

[Kindra178]

I think this an interesting and insightful observation. I took a reading class and a child lit class last semester, and it really changed the way I view the way our kids are learning to read and WHAT they're reading. There are a ton of really amazing picture books out there for kids who are in 1st-5th grade. They have challenging text and vocabulary, tackle dense, meaty topics, and are beautifully illustrated. But because parents (much more so than teachers, from what I've observed) are so preoccupied with getting their kids to read chapter books, these amazing picture books are often completely overlooked. I don't quite understand why Harry Potter has become the new benchmark by which parents measure their child's reading success. I seriously doubt that a first grader - even a VERY advanced one - can truly appreciate all of the subtext and depth of even the first Harry Potter book, even if they can read all the words and understand the plot. Yet I frequently hear parents declare that their kids have washed their hands of picture books in favor of Harry, and the parents encourage it. I find it kind of sad - many (not all, of course) of those kids are missing out on a whole range of awesome books. And the parents of the kids who aren't interested in reading 400 page chapter books in 1st grade are worried that their kids are lagging behind.

When I was a kid, I consistently tested MILES ahead of my grade level in reading. I was reading at an 8th or 9th grade level by the end of 3rd grade. But I didn't read a single chapter book until I was in 4th grade. I started with Judy Blume and Beverly Cleary books. Now those books would be considered downright babyish for a 4th grader. But today's 4th graders aren't actually better readers - they're just being encouraged to read thicker, more mature books at a much earlier age. I find it particularly ironic in the context of all the things modern parents rail against, particularly certain TV shows and encouraging independent problem solving (and independence in general). Reading seems to be the only area in which parents want their kid to act much older than they actually are.

Green Tea

Can you recommend some of those picture books? My child has the rest of his life to read chapter books and I would love to continue to introduce age appropriate picture books, even as he progresses through elementary school. My goal is to instill a love of reading and a love of learning.

From my own personal experience, reading ahead of grade level means little. I am so thrilled that our district is not pushing reading in k, and just takes kids from where they are, thereby not producing stressed kids either.

Yes, Jo, our district's requirement is 30 sight words only.

[AnnieW625]

For Green Eggs & Ham I would say kindergarten or first grade. Some kids are early readers and some are not so IMHO a grade level rating for a book is like an average; some kids in kinder/1st won't be able to read it, most kids will be able to read it, and a smaller segment of the kids it will be way below their grade level. My DD1 who couldn't read more than two or three words in a row at the beginning of the school year all of a sudden picked up reading during Christmas break and she
recently read us Green Eggs & Ham. Her reading skills were very surprising because one of the reasons we chose the school we did for her was that there wasn't a huge emphasis on repetition and reading like there would have been in public school (our school district used Open Court Reading).

I also think that books like Harry Potter and other non picture novels that adults can read easily should not be stressed on 3rd graders. In the 2-3 grade I loved the Charlie Brown comic books our school library had. While reading is important I think that we should let kids be kids and not stress that they really should be reading above grade level unless they really want to.

[egoldber]

I also wonder about the idea of introducing books that are much more advanced in content than the child's age.

Older DD was not an early reader (she started reading in K) but became a fluent reader very quickly. Finding books that she did not read in 10 minutes that were appropriate in content and interesting for her was difficult.

While she did still read and enjoy picture books, she also liked being able to read a book for awhile (like in the car on a trip).

We found that older series books were good for this. Things like Boxcar Children, All of a Kind Family, My Father's Dragon, etc. were good for this. They tended to be a little gentler, although there is often subtle (or not so subtle) racism in many of these older books too, which is a different problem.

[Green_Tea]

Green Tea

Can you recommend some of those picture books? My child has the rest of his life to read chapter books and I would love to continue to introduce age appropriate picture books, even as he progresses through elementary school. My goal is to instill a love of reading and a love of learning.

Sure! It looks like your son is the same age as my DS - is he in K? Most of these books would probably be over his head right now, but I'd be happy to tell you my favorites for younger kids, too (I am a wee bit addicted to kid lit ).

Some of these are more appropriate for 1st-3rd grade, and some are for kids who are a bit older. Many of them would be good read alouds for younger kids (like Piggins) but would require a larger vocab/higher level of fluency for independent reading. Some (like The Quiltmaker's Gift and The Sweetest Fig - which I have seen used in the classroom with 2nd and 3rd graders) can easily be appreciated by a young audience, but also contain really important messages about humanity, good vs. evil, kindness, how our choices shape us, etc. that a kindergartener wouldn't necessarily pick up on.

Piggins by Jane Yolen
The Man Who Walked Between the Towers by Mordecai Gerstein
Baseball Saved Us by Ken Mochizuki (deals with Japanese interment camps during WW2)
The Sweetest Fig by Chris Van Allsburg
Busing Brewster by Richard Michelson (talks about school integration)
The Amazing Life of Benjamin Franklin by James Giblin
If the World Were a Village by David Smith
The Glass Slipper by Paul Fleischman (illustrates the ways the Cinderella story is told in all different cultures)
Crow's Call by Lois Lowry (a little girl gets reacquainted with her father when he returns from WW2)
The Mary Celeste: A Unsolved Mystery From History by Jane Yolen
D'aulaire's Book of Greek Myths by Ingri D'aulaire
The Quiltmaker's Gift by Jeff Brumbeau

Patricia Palacco writes beautiful picture books for older children. She deals with race, bullying, learning differences and other issues, but in a very gentle and engaging manner.

This is a good list of picture books for older kids: http://www.education.wisc.edu/ccbc/b...dBookLists=259

Hope this helps!

ETA: One more! I like Math Curse by Jon Scieszka. And I also totally get what Egoldber says about kids sometimes wanting longer books - I'm not anti-chapter book. I just don't think they should be treated like they're the only option out there, or that kids who aren't reading them or have no interest are in any way behind. I also think parents should screen them carefully if they're concerned about certain themes. I have to laugh when I hear a parent say their child was frightened by movie adaptations of Roald Dahl books, but in the next breath says they're halfway through the third Harry Potter book - who do they think inspired JK Rowling?