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  1. #11
    Melaine is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pilotbaby View Post
    First of all- yay to you for nursing for 17 months! Are you wanting to night wean or would you be ok with maybe one night nursing at a time determined by you? As far as the sleep, it sounds to me like there is a strong possibility he is overtired. Early wake ups often signal being over tired. I know that sounds strange. Also, a sleep cycle is 45 minutes so those short naps that he is getting are probably not refreshing him at all. We had to move to naps that are at least an hour and a half (two full sleep cycles) to get really well rested. What does your schedule look like as far as bedtime and nap times? If you are really desperate and wanting change, you might need to overhaul your schedule a bit. If you want to post more details, I can share with you what worked for us. Good luck to you!

    Well, I'd like to move towards completely weaning so I can get on meds. But sleep is more important than weaning at this point. We have always been very consistent with schedules and have tried tweaking them but have never had any actual sleep success with DS. I have read straight through Ferber a couple times and used it to get him back to his crib from co-sleeping but still haven't had the real turn around I'd hoped for.

    Our schedule is:
    bedtime 6:30
    waking at 5 (obviously NOT what I want but not sure about CIO at that hour of the morning?)
    nap at 9 (have tried variations, 9:30 or 10)
    nap at 2 (have tried as early as 1)

    Feedback welcome!

    ETA: responding to a few more things, he doesn't care about any lovey I have found. He does sleep with one but completely ignores it. The girls loved theirs! But they weren't BF!

    He isn't a stroller sleeper and really doesn't sleep in the car much either. DH says we need to CIO at 5 and I guess so he just wakes up seeming so AWAKE at that time.
    Last edited by Melaine; 09-23-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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  2. #12
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    6:30 is pretty early, especially this time of year when it's still light out. Does his room have black out curtains? I'd try that (although the time change is coming soon). Our bedtime at that age was between 7-7:30, and I think we wear gone of the earlier bed times I knew about. They'd sleep from about 7pm-7am. DD didn't get attached to her blankie until around two years old. So don't give up on that.

    This is was our routine at that age (not saying it's perfect, or the answer to your situation).
    Announce its time for PJs.
    Undress them.
    They would run laps as "naked babies".
    Diapers/PJs on. We would sing our sleepy time song (with the clever lyrics of "sleepy sleepy, it's time to go to sleep...mommy loves, it's time to go to sleep.Daddy loves you...)
    bedtime stories in their cribs.
    take turns nursing in rocking chair, darkened room (I weaned at about that age, I needed hypertension meds)
    turned on their crib toys that mad music/light show
    sang sleepy time song softly as I left

    It was a multi-step routine, but it really seemed to work.

    Dogs your our little guy take a bottle at all? Maybe warm milk help, cold might be too different for him. You can wipe his teeth with a damp washcloth to prevent bottle rot.
    Mommy to my wonderful, HEALTHY twin girls
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  3. #13
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    Oh, I so feel your pain. DS woke anywhere from 8 to 12 times per night for the first 11 months of his life. Then we "progressed" to about half that. It was torture. At 5, he is still not a great sleeper.

    The only thing that ever seemed to work a little for us was just to physically wear him out. Lots of walking, playing, running. Maybe try upping his actual physical activity and see if it burns some of that excess energy he is drawing from.

    I am certainly no expert, but I sure can commiserate!
    SAHM to Pete and Repeat my "Irish Twins" - DD 12/06 and DS 11/07

    Never argue with an idiot. He'll bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  4. #14
    Melaine is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Thanks TwinFoxes, 6:30 does seem early but it was the girls' bedtime at this age and since I am so freakin' tired that is what we landed on for DS. Plus the girls actually go to bed at 7:30 so it's nice to have an hour with them before they go down. If pushing back would help wake-up though I am willing to try. We do have blackout curtains.

    He doesn't take a bottle and doesn't actually do a beverage consistently in place of milk due to allergy. We still don't do milk, cheese, yogurt for him although I have let some stuff slip through like goldfish for convenience sake. To pp who mentioned allergies maybe I need to be more vigilant on the dairy but it's always been such a guessing game with him, even in the early days when I was cutting out everything myself. The girls are dairy free though so I don't intend to be buying any more major dairy items.

    He does get water, Naked or similar juices, sometimes a cup of coconut milk or almond milk. I've wondered if I should offer a sippy of water during the night when he wakes but didn't know if that would just complicate matters.
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  5. #15
    Melaine is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by DietCokeLover View Post
    Oh, I so feel your pain. DS woke anywhere from 8 to 12 times per night for the first 11 months of his life. Then we "progressed" to about half that. It was torture. At 5, he is still not a great sleeper.

    The only thing that ever seemed to work a little for us was just to physically wear him out. Lots of walking, playing, running. Maybe try upping his actual physical activity and see if it burns some of that excess energy he is drawing from.

    I am certainly no expert, but I sure can commiserate!
    I have noticed that on super active days, like all day trip to the lake he may sleep closer to 2 hours for nap which seems like heaven of course. But normal days with playing on the swing set, going to the zoo, running at the park, those don't seem to phase him.
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  6. #16
    Pilotbaby is offline Platinum level (1000+ posts)
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    I think maybe your first nap is a little bit late. You might be missing the sleep window by 9 and that might account for the short nap. Have you tried doing the first nap three hours after wake up? Then a second nap later in the afternoon? We do a 8:30 (ish) bedtime which might be a little on the late side for some people. Our 18 month old sleeps until 6 or 7. She used to wake very early and I had to teach her how to sleep until at least 6 because I really couldn't function well earlier than that. She still takes two naps- usually two hours each. The better she naps, the better she sleeps at night. Overtired babies tend not to sleep well so you really want him well rested when he goes to bed.
    I second the comment about making sure the room is really dark. Have you tried a white noise machine? They can be really soothing for babies who wake up between sleep cycles and might help with your short naps too.
    How does he fall asleep at bedtime? Does he nurse to sleep? Do you put him in the crib already sleeping? We had frequent wake ups throughout the night until about 9 months of age when we finally started working with a sleep consultant who taught us a lot about sleep and sleep cycles etc. We did not do CIO but she taught us a method that really worked for us.



    Quote Originally Posted by Melaine View Post
    Well, I'd like to move towards completely weaning so I can get on meds. But sleep is more important than weaning at this point. We have always been very consistent with schedules and have tried tweaking them but have never had any actual sleep success with DS. I have read straight through Ferber a couple times and used it to get him back to his crib from co-sleeping but still haven't had the real turn around I'd hoped for.

    Our schedule is:
    bedtime 6:30
    waking at 5 (obviously NOT what I want but not sure about CIO at that hour of the morning?)
    nap at 9 (have tried variations, 9:30 or 10)
    nap at 2 (have tried as early as 1)

    Feedback welcome!

    ETA: responding to a few more things, he doesn't care about any lovey I have found. He does sleep with one but completely ignores it. The girls loved theirs! But they weren't BF!

    He isn't a stroller sleeper and really doesn't sleep in the car much either. DH says we need to CIO at 5 and I guess so he just wakes up seeming so AWAKE at that time.

  7. #17
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    Wanted to share my sympathies with you! It does sound so hard on you.

    My DS gave up his morning nap around 12-14 months old, if I recall but because he was a late riser at 730am. He never took his morning nap till 11am and ts just for 45 mins usually then napped again at 3 till 5 and went to bed at 8pm.

    I hated that schedule as he wasn't a good napper in car seat nor stroller, so i was really limited in my mornings till he had his 11am nap. Once he dropped his 11am with me powering on for a week without that nap, he would naturally start to wake earlier at 7am and get tired around 1230. I would start lunch 1145-noon to feed him by 1215 and he'll be tired for his nap by then. He always went down easily by 1245 or 1 without issues and wake up by 3pm.

    I know it's really hard to keep your LO awake once he's sleepy, maybe go outside and do fun activity with him to power on without morning nap? Do that for at least 4-5 days to break through and see how he falls asleep for his afternoon nap. Try starting your bedtime routine by 630 but don't let him get into his crib till 7 to go asleep.

    But the biggest thing for my DS if he napped well, he always went to sleep easily and slept through the night. If he had a really short nap or restless one; then he wouldn't go to sleep till 830 or 9 that night.

    So tough & hang in there!


    Cate
    Mummy to DS1-6/11 and DS2-1/14

  8. #18
    Melaine is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Thanks all. More follow up: we do have a white noise marpac (?) that works. I also leave fans on in other bedrooms and sometimes in the hall bath. He is a light sleeper for sure but he definitely wakes up on his own often as well. I would say the early nap is too late but he didn't do any better when he was waking later. Up until maybe a month ago he was waking about 6, going down at 9 and 2 and bed at 6:30.

    So just to clarify, if we try pushing back bedtime to 7 for now, and try to do just one nap between 12-1pm does that sound like the best plan? Also, do I let him CIO (modified, I always check at intervals a la Ferber) when he wakes between 4 and 5? If so how long? (I'm concerned he may fall back asleep but not until late). Also, do I let him CIO if I think his one nap is too short, like if he wakes up 45 minutes into it?

    He always goes to sleep easily at night and I always put him down awake. He lays down and goes to sleep on his own. We do all the routine things that the books recommend, etc. etc. I also feel like we have tried most reasonable times over the last 6 months. I just can't seem to beat this.
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  9. #19
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    I definitely agree with PP about black out curtains. They helped a lot when DD1 was a baby. I also think 6:30 is a kind of early bed time. My DD2 is about the age of your DS and our schedule is:

    Wake up: 6:15am (I usually wake her up at this time on the weekdays, On the weekends she usually sleeps until 6:30am-7:00am)
    Nap: 12:30pm
    Bedtime: 7:30ish (sometimes closer to 7pm and sometimes closer to 8 depending on how long her nap was and how hectic the evening is).

    We did Ferber with DD1 and I think the number one most important thing was to apply it consistently all the time. At naps, at bedtime, at middle of the night wake ups, all.the.time. I made a hard and fast rule that I absolutely would not pick her up unless I could tell she had poop. Because once they realize that you will pick them up and give them their way, they will keep crying. This sounds mean, but they need to understand that this is sleep time and that there is no hope of being picked up. And, everytime you break the picking up rule, it will set you back for days. It sounds terrible written out like that, but DD1 was a terrible sleeper as an infant and is a rockstar sleeper now and I completely credit that to Ferber. I also try to remind myself that adequate sleep is a health issue and it is important enough that it is worth a few tears (the same way I think of tooth brushing, even though DD2 screams like a banshee the whole time).

    As for nursing, I think you need to prioritize yourself and get on your meds and your DS is going to have to deal. Could your DH deal with him at night while you wean? We did this with both girls when we night weaned. DH did all the night wake ups so they didn't see me and think "food time". I don't know about your DS, but my DDs were ridiculously perceptive and if I was anxious, they were anxious and if I am calm, they are calm. Maybe if you could get on your meds, it will help him calm down too.
    Mommy to my little bear cubs DD1 and DD2- 4/2010 and 4/2012

  10. #20
    BDKmom is online now Sapphire level (2000+ posts)
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    My kids, thankfully, have both been pretty good sleepers, but DD not until around 11 months. I will give you a rundown of what we do, just in case there is a nugget of help at all. I can only imagine how miserable you must be. My DD is almost 16 months. She goes down for the night at 7 PM with a pacifier. She sometimes wakes up in the night anywhere between 4 and 6 AM. If she does, we go in and quickly give her the paci (usually it has fallen out and she can't find it) and she goes right back to sleep until 7-8 AM. She goes down for her nap (with paci) around noon and usually sleeps 1 hr 15 min to 1 hr 45 min. She has a box fan outside her door whenever she is sleeping.

    My DD didn't start sleeping through the night until 11 months, right after she got ear tubes. So my first question would be, is there any chance of undiagnosed ear infections? As far as your DS's early waking, I would pick a time that you think is acceptable for wake up and start gradually working toward that. So, if he wakes up at 4:30, maybe the first day don't go in until 4:40, then a few days later, 4:50, then 5 AM, etc, until you hopefully get to whatever time you feel is OK for wake up. I personally would get nighttime sleep going better before I started taking away naps, but that's just me. If he's waking up at 5 AM, I don't think he can make it until noon without a nap. I agree with others that it sounds like he is way overtired, and you have to find some way to break the cycle.

    I know you said he doesn't have a lovey he cares for, but will he take a pacifier? That's really what saves us with DD.

    Otherwise, all I can offer is lots of P&PT that things get better for you soon!
    DS - Feb 2010
    DD - May 2012

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