Random thoughts: men/women cultural norms when traveling

[hillview]

I am traveling for work solo. I am in Goa India for the weekend (after almost 2 weeks in Bangalore where I return to today). I struggle with cultural norms across a range of things but specifically this post is about cultural norms btwn men and women. Of course most of us have read the horrible things that have happened to women in India (gang rapes etc) and not to say this doesn't happen in the US but to a degree it seems worse in India. Also the Kitchen Fires. With that for context I'd have to admit that I am on higher alert vs say San Francisco.

Situation #1
On the beach, 9 am. 2 separate times men come up to me asking to have their photos taken with me. I shake my head and keep walking. I am dressed in way more clothes (ankle pants and a tank top no cleavage showing etc) vs the other women in bathing suits on the beach FWIW. I have dark hair. I was walking alone.

Situation #2
930 pm I am in my room almost asleep (lame I know). The manager of the hotel (small boutique local hotel with mix of people here but for sure not a US hotel) knocks on my door telling me to "OPEN THE DOOR" then asking when I am checking out. I am startled and tell him no, not opening the door, we will talk in the morning.

Where do cultural norms start and "danger" begin? I don't know. How can you tell the difference?

I get that this is a random post but I didn't want to post on Facebook or even tell DH (he will worry!). I just thought it might be interesting to start a thread on this topic.

[AshleyAnn]

I have not traveled internationally (well Canada but ehh) so I can't answer your question but both situations would have made me uncomfortable especially #2.

[niccig]

I've done a backpacking round the world trip and lived in Asian and European countries for up to a year at a time. In some parts of the world, women traveling alone draw attention. Western women draw attention. I went out of my way to not draw attention and was always conservatively dressed - that includes covering my shoulders. Short sleeves are fine, tank top was out. I also wore clothing that wasn't form fitting. Here I'd argue I can wear what ever I damn well want. When in another country, particularly one where women are not treated well, my safety comes before my principles.

I also had my own padlock for a door if I could use it or a plastic door wedge to keep the door closed from the inside. I mostly stayed in hostels and cheaper hotels in tourist districts. If you're traveling a lot there, you may want to find a hotel where you do feel comfortable. And no, I wouldn't be opening the door at 9.30pm either.

[hillview]

ok so barricading the door with the couch seems less insane

[stefani]

I would not be comfortable with either situation. Good thinking that you did not open the door (situation #2).

For situation #1, DH (who is Caucasian) did get asked several times in touristy places in Asia for photos. He was with me and DS though. DS and I blend in enough so not an issue for us. The photos were in a group and it was with teenage girls so we indulged them.

I would not want to have my picture taken if men if I were alone though.

Stay safe!

[Globetrotter]

You don't have to worry about dowry burning (the kitchen fires) but I would definitely be cautious walking around alone, just as you would if you were in a large city in the U.S. As a caucasian woman, you might be considered more approachable compared to Indian women who wouldn't give them the time of day. There is a problem with eve teasing, which is basically groping or catcalls in public places, like crowded trains or sidewalks. This is the sort of thing that happens in a repressed society. ugh.. though I must say that dating is becoming more the norm in big cities. You may also notice that men walk around holding hands. They aren't all gay It's socially acceptable for same sex friends to hold hands (men or women) but not for hetero. couples. Again, things are changing rapidly, esp. in places like Bangalore.

In the first situation, they were probably wanting to brag to their friends or post it on FB, but you were right to walk away. When I was in college I traveled to Europe and some men asked to have their picture taken with me! I thought it was weird, but I think they just wanted to brag to their friends and I was "Exotic", which is hilarious because I was such a goody two shoes and never dated anyone or anything. I let them do it because I thought it was funny, though of course now I know better.

As for the second scenario, he was probably just asking you to open the door to talk, but you shouldn't do anything that creeps you out so you did the right thing. Better to be safe than sorry.

[niccig]

ok so barricading the door with the couch seems less insane

Do what you feel you need to feel safe. I do think you need to be more cautious then you would elsewhere. Listen to your gut, and if you're not comfortable eg. the photo with just men, then walk away.

Western women are seen as easy to approach and the emphasis is on easy. I lived in Japan, Nepal and India and some men there think nothing of propositioning a western women walking by on the street - granted some were drunk, but I've never experienced it here. They have cultural norms when approach women of their own culture that they think don't apply to women from elsewhere.

I'd also be cautious with how you interact with men in the office.What here would be seen as just being friendly, can take on different meaning elsewhere. I'd be professional at all times and not be friendly chatting or joking. Communication is always seen through the lens of your own culture. What is acceptable communication between men and women here in the USA is not seen the same in other countries. You're in their country, you need to adapt you communication and behavior for there so no mixed messages. I did see people run into trouble when they expected to act like they did from their home country. I never understood why they thought they could live/work in another country and not follow local cultural norms and then be surprised when there were issues.

But also, you want to be open to new experiences. One way to do that is to get to know the women you'd be working with, you'll get invited to family/community events as people do want to share their life and culture with people from overseas.

ETA. If you'll be visiting one area more often, try to learn some of the local language. I found that when I used the local language, even if just negotiating to buy fruit from guy on corner with a fruit cart, it was assumed I was an expat living there and therefore knew what was acceptable, and not a tourist that could get ripped off. I found this to be the same regardless of country. Trying to learn the local language and cultural norms, asking questions of people you work with to explain things, are all seen as positive signs that you're open to learning how they do things means you'll be accepted more and not seen as "the foreigner" all the time.

[Globetrotter]

Western women are seen as easy to approach and the emphasis is on easy. I lived in Japan, Nepal and India and some men there think nothing of propositioning a western women walking by on the street - granted some were drunk, but I've never experienced it here. They have cultural norms when approach women of their own culture that they think don't apply to women from elsewhere.

This is unfortunately true
Niccig, you had some great tips. I didn't realize you had lived in these places!

[niccig]

This is unfortunately true
Niccig, you had some great tips. I didn't realize you had lived in these places!

I was an exchange student to Japan for a year when I was 16 and was bitten hard by the travel bug. Once I graduated college and was working I travelled as much as I could and mostly to Asia as not too far from Australia for 4-6 weeks at a time (I got 6 weeks annual leave). Then I quit my job and did a round the world trip which involved volunteering for several months in Nepal and India as I slowly made my way to the UK, where I worked for a while. I met DH on this trip and ended up here in USA. Even here in the USA, I don't speak or behave as I did back in Australia - the cultural differences aren't as stark, but I did have to adapt to the cultural norms here.

When traveling I learned to be open to new experiences and not judge things as being "wrong" or always comparing unfavorable to how it's done back home. I certainly don't like how women are treated in many countries, but if visiting, I do cover up or be more cautious for safety reasons. In India I found I got hassled less when wore the salwar kameez as blended in more.

[lizzywednesday]

...

Western women are seen as easy to approach and the emphasis is on easy. ...

This is what we were always told before our annual performance tours in high school, but especially if we were traveling overseas, and we "only" went to England!

Our director would also "test" that we'd absorbed the information by going 'round to our rooms at night, covering the peep-holes, and banging on the door. If we opened the door, not only would we have 6' of former baseball player barging into our room, but we'd also get a lecture.

I was never subject to this performance, for which I was thankful. I strongly suspect that Mr. Dalton figured I was level-headed and "responsible" enough not to be susceptible to a midnight door-knock.

Anyway, if someone knocked on my hotel room door at 9:30pm, I would have flashbacks. And I would DEFINITELY not open the door!