kitchen questions

[123LuckyMom]

Knock on wood but we've had zero issues with our SZ full size set. They have great warranties and good customer service from friends. The Samsungs were purchased based on consumer reports but I really don't trust their reviews much anymore, at least for higher end appliances or cars. I have had better luck with hours of garden web and houzz! Hoping I didn't jinx myself but we love our SZ's!

I'm so glad you're not having problems!

[AnnieW625]

...…I know this is not what you are asking but in a kitchen remodel there is a risk IMO of the kitchen ending up not feeling homey and having an industrial feel to it and in some cases a wastefulness -- of space, of money, of appliances even. In a period home I would be trying to limit my visible stainless -- hopefully you can panel over the DW, even the frig. The kitchens that are stand outs to me are those that incorporate unique features, personal touches, one awesome custom furniture piece, or beautiful lighting fixtures. I just don't want you to feel after the fact that you were talked into a bunch of generic appliances/features that don't particularly appeal to you and have sort of lost some of their cachet generally because they are just automatically installed in a "high end kitchen."

agree with this completely! Work with the architecture and style of the house; don't turn a farmhouse style kitchen into something completely modern just because that is the trend because it won't flow. I try not to get too into Houzz.com because I know I will probably never be able to afford even a 1/3rd of what they have done in some cases or even want (I don't need high end commercial aplliances....although Viking does make a great beautiful white microwave for less than $1000--my grandma had one), but it is a great way to see what others have done with similar style kitchens that won't look out of date in 5 yrs. .

Also I know the OP's husband has a big say in what goes into the kitchen and while Sub Zero/Wolf is definitely nice I would be adding up how much you could save on other brands and see if you would save more than the rebate for buying everything as a set.

[sste]

Hanna, I will try the frig temp trick next time, thanks! Unfortunately, for me and hopefully not for OP, I am at very high risk of developing diabetes based on family history and gestational one pregnancy so I minimize wine--not that it is so high carb and the research on it for diabetes is quite mixed so it may be fine. But in a meal with significant carbs situation I feel like it is an easier thing for me to cut. So for me a beverage center would not make sense. But I do really enjoy the occasional glass!

What I would like and cannot find (maybe this is the appeal of the Samsung?) is a refrigerator that stores a TON of produce. Due to the aforementioned health problems. I don't need much freezer space. Or a reasonably priced set of frig drawers. If you think about family of five eating 5-6 servings of fruit/veg a day that is alot of produce. The American refrigerator is not designed for the American dietary recs! And we only have 36-42 inches to work with.

I will say I bought a miele DW after HA's rec and I was grumbling the whole time about the cost . . . and I love that thing, it is like having an appliance from the jetsons.

[123LuckyMom]

Hanna, I will try the frig temp trick next time, thanks! Unfortunately, for me and hopefully not for OP, I am at very high risk of developing diabetes based on family history and gestational one pregnancy so I minimize wine--not that it is so high carb and the research on it for diabetes is quite mixed so it may be fine. But in a meal with significant carbs situation I feel like it is an easier thing for me to cut. So for me a beverage center would not make sense. But I do really enjoy the occasional glass!

What I would like and cannot find (maybe this is the appeal of the Samsung?) is a refrigerator that stores a TON of produce. Due to the aforementioned health problems. I don't need much freezer space. Or a reasonably priced set of frig drawers. If you think about family of five eating 5-6 servings of fruit/veg a day that is alot of produce. The American refrigerator is not designed for the American dietary recs! And we only have 36-42 inches to work with.

I will say I bought a miele DW after HA's rec and I was grumbling the whole time about the cost . . . and I love that thing, it is like having an appliance from the jetsons.

This is exactly why I want the Samsung. I don't need a huge freezer, especially since we'll have a freezer in the basement. I want that extra section for fruits and dairy. That's what we all eat for snacks, and this way those things would be at kid level, and there'll be extra space in the fridge for bulky veggies.

ETA: if you don't mind my asking, which Miele model do you have?

[marinkitty]

This thread just goes to show how in the end you need to do what will work for you and not go with the trends. I do agree with the PP who said try not to have all the appliances look like appliances or the kitchen feels cold/industrial. We have panels on our fridge, freezer, fridge drawers in the island and both dishwashers. And the coffee maker has doors that open and slide back alongside it, so when not in use it looks like another cabinet. The only stainless you see are the wall ovens and the range top (microwave is a drawer in the island so it is low and you don't notice it). It helps the kitchen feel period-appropriate with the house (it is 110 years old) but still have the modern conveniences.

I am the opposite of most people here - I have a plumbed Miele coffee maker that we LOVE and use daily and it makes the best coffee I've ever had (friends now stop by my house just for a cup of coffee). I really enjoy making a cup at a time, making an espresso or americano or latte, the kids can make hot chocolate out of the hot water spigot, tea is just a push button away. It is awesome! I love not dealing with beans, grounds, water etc. except to refill the very large bean container every couple of weeks and dump grinds every few days. I love not having a coffee pot sitting on my counter or grinding my own beans. I also don't think it will get dated quickly - a friend of mine in the city installed the same machine 8 years before me and it is still going strong and she still loves it. She hasn't had an issue in 8 years. We have had one milk pipe clog up but my husband was able to sort it out (though I would have given up and called the Miele repair people and we are under warranty so it probably would have been a hassle, not a $ issue). But it is definitely something you only buy if you are going to love it and use it all the time. I'd never have gotten one just to have one because I "should." Way to pricey and optional for that.

We don't have a beverage fridge and I don't regret not having one. We have a wet bar in a transitional space between the kitchen and family room that has a bar sink, glassware cabinets and under cabinet space that would have been perfect for a fridge or an ice maker and we decided to do neither. It has been almost 2 years and I feel no need for the fridge. I do sometimes think that an ice maker would have been a good idea. When we have parties we have to buy ice b/c the ice maker in the Sub Zero doesn't make enough for entertaining, just family use. We have side by side stand-alone Sub Zero fridge and freezer units (the 27" width) and they have a large door up top and two drawers in the bottom. I also have two more fridge drawers at the end of my island across from the rangetop, so we use the bottom drawer in the large fridge for beverages and have another small beverage fridge in the basement. It is more than enough space and we drink a ton of wine (though mostly red) and entertain quite a bit. So really it comes down to how much cold booze you need to stock and how much other fridge space you need.

The thing I do love is my extra two fridge drawers down by the range. I use it for eggs and cooking produce and I love having all that right there when I cook and not having it in the main family fridge. Now there is more room for salad fixings and fruit in the drawer we use for produce in the main fridge and I don't end up with produce overflowing into the main fridge compartment or the bottom drawer that we like to use for beverages.

Oh - and two dishwashers was the smartest thing we did. Really it makes life very lovely to have the extra capacity if you have the space. Of course not at all a necessity but I love it. We have two Mieles (the middle range one) and they are great - quiet and load well. I love that dishes are out of sight out of mind. Anything that makes our crazy life easier at home is a big win in our book.

[sste]

Lucky, you came to the right person as I know more about the miele DW lines than the salespeople, than most of the Miele corporate at this point. We had a dimension that the salesperson told us had express (he was wrong) and exchanged it for a crystal as I really wanted that express cycle. The place told us to use our dimension as it was a while before the crystal came in so I used both.


All the models are the SAME dishwasher, internally they are the same there are just add on features, some of which are useless. One is not going to clean better than another. It is all features that differentiate those and the features are bells and whistles for the most part. They did an annoying thing this year which is that they dropped the "express" cycle from the least expensive one and the dimension (more expensive one). The crystal has it.

You want the cheapest one that has what you need. Are you getting two DWs? If that was the case you would only need express on one of them.

So by feature:
express cycle -- this is a big deal to me for entertaining and with kids. I will say I don't use it as much as I thought I would but I really like having the option. Some people don't care.

pop open door --silly feature. I had both models recall! And nothing was drier with the pop open door. The composition of plastics means they are always hard to dry unless you spend crazy/silly money and buy the over 2k miele that has an additional fan in there to suck out the water. Really things are very dry overall so this is not worth fussing over.

water softener--you have to check your local water, ours does not require or benefit from water softening. I believe 4 is the cutoff miele recs, ours is 7 and I have no issues and have not added the salt. In areas with hard water I don't think this is a bells and whistle feature, I think it is a nec. one.

regular rack versus 3 rack: the 3d rack is nice because the drop down thing allows for fitting in spoons, ladles etc. For whatever reason we use a ton of implements. I loved the 3d rack on the dimension. What I did when I had to exchange for the crystal was pay $200 for an after market 3d rack. I question this spending as I would have liked the plain rack fine had I not gotten used to the 3d rack!

Configurability internally: largely over-rated, the crystal allows you to pop down one side on bottom rack which is useful. The dimension allows you pop down both sides which honestly I never used. If you have two DWs though and you are mentally dedicating one to pots and pans that greater config. would count. In a one DW situation I find it much easier/quicker to wash our larger pots/pans and the smaller ones fit in the bottom rack fine without pushing anything down. And the big stuff will fit over the tines if needed.

Extra quiet cycle: absurd! Over four hours long! And the miele is quiet to begin with.

Additional sound proofing: Also should not be on anyone's radar unless you have OCD level noise issues or no kids. ALL of them are quiet.

One little feature I liked in the dimension and paid $20 for aftermarket for my crystal was this squiggly piece that goes on the upper rack and better stabilizes stemware. That is a nice feature and worth the 20 bucks.

We got our dimension as a return so it was discounted. Unfortunately the express cycle was key to me because the crystal plus aftermarket 3d rack cost almost as much as the discounted dimension. The salesperson cut me a deal on the crystal as he felt badly about the dimension. You may want to ask about floor models/returns esp if you are buying two!

[AnnieW625]

This is exactly why I want the Samsung. I don't need a huge freezer, especially since we'll have a freezer in the basement. I want that extra section for fruits and dairy. That's what we all eat for snacks, and this way those things would be at kid level, and there'll be extra space in the fridge for bulky veggies.

ETA: if you don't mind my asking, which Miele model do you have?

We were super intrigued by the Samsung and Electrolux models that had extra space that could be used for veggies, but sadly we didn't have the space for them in our house. We did get big veggie drawers in our Kenmore side by side fridge though.

[sste]

I will also say on appliances I have a "senior" wolf that was in the house when we moved in -- combination range/oven, must be over 10 years old. And I have a love-hate relationship with it. It lets off ALOT of heat. I don't think the previous owners spaced or insulated things appropriately as the adjacent cabinets and their handles get hot. Or maybe that is just the Wolf. I am terrified to have the kids anywhere near the thing actually, it is both powerful and weirdly attractive to them. It is really fun to cook on and I love the griddle (most people are grill fans but we have a weekend pancake tradition and I limit grilled foods in our diet).

Anyway, this is all to say that I think there are advantages and disadvantages to the "residential-commercial" range and I would personally look for the best deal possible, consider other brands, etc. At the end of the day, I don't feel like I had this huge QOL improvement from this range that I am a little scared of!!

[marinkitty]

I will also say on appliances I have a "senior" wolf that was in the house when we moved in -- combination range/oven, must be over 10 years old. And I have a love-hate relationship with it. It lets off ALOT of heat. I don't think the previous owners spaced or insulated things appropriately as the adjacent cabinets and their handles get hot. Or maybe that is just the Wolf. I am terrified to have the kids anywhere near the thing actually, it is both powerful and weirdly attractive to them. It is really fun to cook on and I love the griddle (most people are grill fans but we have a weekend pancake tradition and I limit grilled foods in our diet).

Anyway, this is all to say that I think there are advantages and disadvantages to the "residential-commercial" range and I would personally look for the best deal possible, consider other brands, etc. At the end of the day, I don't feel like I had this huge QOL improvement from this range that I am a little scared of!!

sste - I wonder if it is the age. I had a Viking that was OLD (almost 20 years) when I moved into my current house and that thing was seriously scary. Cooked like a dream but I was so worried when the kids were around it. Now I have a Wolf (just a cooktop - my ovens are Wolf wall ovens so I don't have a full range anymore) and I don't have hot anything. We have the same cooktop set up as I had with the old Viking - 6 burners and a 12" griddle - and nothing gets hot except the griddle (and not the plate in front of the griddle, which did get scalding hot on the viking and I burned myself more than once on that piece).

[sste]

Thanks Marin, maybe it is the age as it is EXACTLY what you are describing, I swear even the granite countertop next to it gets warm! The thing is - - and this is part of my push-pull in general about $$$ appliances and cabinets, I honestly feel that we can get never get rid of it, not until it croaks! It cost someone alot of money, it is huge with double ovens, and it works well overall. It is just that what was normal and probably state of the art then is now in our opinion way too hot! Don't get me wrong, I love custom cabinetry and am a sucker for my miele . . . but I sometimes wonder if it is better to spend less and have the flexibility to change things up more. I have a feeling that wolf is going to outlive me, it is a like a tank. I know I am a kitchen buzzkill!