DS2 behavior

[hillview]

Many of you know DS2 has some challenges in life. In general things have been massively improving. DS2 has possible ADHD and NLD and sees a therapist weekly for his emotional issues, an OT and SLP and a tutor. In general he is a kind child but does at times get very ANGRY usually at me, sometimes at DH and last year at school at his teachers (thus the therapy and some meds).

This morning was off to a good start and DS2 dancing and hit his head in the hallway (out of sight of DH and DS1). He said "ouch" and when I looked I could tell it hurt more than a little bump (but not big bump etc) so I went to him and hugged him and offered to get him a ice pack and told him to go sit on DH's lap. DH and DS1 were sitting on high bar stools eating breakfast (DS2 had already finished). As DS2 was going to DH he slammed into DS1's chair to tip him over in anger. It was very scary. DS1 was mad (understandable) and DS2 was upset that DS1 had not asked if he was ok or been concerned about him and then went on to say that DS1 never says he loves him.


SOOOOOO after a chat and some apologies we moved on this morning with our lives. HOWEVER this is a big flag for me. As in WTH is going on -- who does that?

Thoughts?

[sste]

Oh Hill, I am so sorry. How terrifying for all of you, including your DS. I think you need a hard core behaviorist. I am assuming your therapist is a more general CBT therapist? We took our DS (who had very mild behavior issues) to a metro hospital based behavior program with a reputation for getting RESULTS with kids with more severe behavior issues. Our DS was a walk in the park for them as they deal with higher acuity daily. That is what you need IMO. They should be able to improve his behavior, develop a family plan of what is going to happen if your DS has an outburst at this level, and generally be a resource to you. What is going on now is so very unsafe and I don't want to freak you out but you don't want it to get to the point where you have to consider a setting other than his home for your DS or a short-term psych stay because the family is not safe.

In the Boston area I would start making calls, probably beginning here if this is a resource you have not yet tapped. No personal experience but that is one heck of a well regarded children's hospital and they will know most of the great behaviorists in town: http://www.childrenshospital.org/hea...vior-disorders

[hillview]

thanks SSTE. I kind of agree. DH is more "normal sibling stuff" but this really threw me (as in no obvious reason for this reaction). I am seeing his psych this Friday and will see if she has some ideas.

[cuca_]

I am sorry you are dealing with this. Is your DS in ADHD meds? I ask you, because we have experienced erratic/out of character behavior that ended up being a secondary effect of the medication. I know you mentioned that your DS gets very angry at times, so this might not be the case, but I thought that it was worth mentioning.

Also, if you suspect ADHD, low frustration tolerance and impulse control are common symptoms. If he is on meds, do you feel that the meds are working? It might be worth it to discuss it with the psych.

Also, I'm sure you have tried many things, but there is a book/cd called The Very Angry Octopus, that really held my ADHD kid who struggled with low frustration tolerance. There is also a social skills program that has superheroes that represent each emotion, and it is very well regarded. I will try looking it up in a bit.

[hillview]

cuca thanks for the response. DS2 is on risperdal for his anger issues (not an ADHD medicine) theory is that anxiety and NLD issues are causing ADHD like symptoms. But not really ADHD (if that makes sense). He is very complex (IMO) as he had brain surgery as an infant. I do think he has low threshold for frustration and poor impulse control symptoms and agree this likely led to the situation.

Thanks for the book suggestion. Will order it. I;d love the superhero info thanks!

[DualvansMommy]

hillview

don't really have anything to say except hugs your way. That must have been quite scary! did DS2 explain to you why he did that? and were you happy with his response/rationale?
anything else going on with his schooling that may have been out of the norm?

[cuca_]

Hillview, the program is called superflex. I know a couple of professionals that swear by it. One of my DDs did a social group that used the program, but we weren't there for very long, as we moved out of state. Here's a link with more information: http://www.socialthinking.com/books-...category_id=37

Also, you mentioned anxiety. Does he take meds to treat that. I ask, because DD1 did not take her pill a couple of days ago, and she was very mouthy and belligerent. I realized right away what the issue was and gave her her med. I noticed a change right away. That same DD has learning disabilities and ADHD, and, although she enjoys school, it is also very stressful for her. She is a different kid during the summer, much more relaxed and less anxious.

I also have a couple of kids books related to dealing with anger, because my DD2 would get frustrated very easily in preschool. I will look around tomorrow and post any titles that are worthy.

[o_mom]

It sounds pretty intense from your description, but it is hard to know the feel of the situation over the internet. Which part of it stuck out to you as most innapropriate? When you say "who does that? What is that your are referring to?

I think my suggestions would depend on how you answer these.

[JustMe]

Okay, I really hope that I am not crazy but I have a different perspective and do think some of it is sibling stuff. In my house, my 2 kids do seem to take things out on each other..and I mean things that have nothing to do with each other. For example, school was stressful to dd..she is outright mean to ds in multiple ways. Ds is angry about something (at school, who knows), he uses particularly hurtful words to dd when she asks to play with him. I know this sounds mild compared to what you describe but words can hurt and my 2 know how to use them that way! With your ds2, it really sounds like something similar was going on except that he maybe has additional impulse control issues.

So, I agree with working on healthy ways do express anger (good luck--my ds struggles with this too and he actually prefers to take it out on me over his sister), impulse control, when to take a break from your sibling, etc.

[sste]

We used superflex in part too for anxiety -- DS's therapist cobbled together a program for him for anxiety/perfectionism that included part coping cats, part superflex, part some other things. He started at age 6 and there aren't really evidence based anxiety programs for kids that young so she took different parts and I believe the superflex/superpowers we used to calm him down so that he could then identify thought distortions etc.

Hill and others, to give you some more of my perspective on why I would take this very seriously. If he had knocked your DS over and your older DS had to go to the ER with a head injury or other, I believe (???) that could trigger reporting to DCYFs. Particularly since it wasn't a toddler that did this but an older child and legally parents are considered responsible for keeping kids in the house safe. Also, even if the consequences are not that severe legally, you cannot all be living in a state of fear!! I think the younger the kid the easier it is (comparatively) to get this under control with a behavior plan, meds, etc. I would def. call his psychiatrist to discuss med switches, tweaking etc in addition to looking for a behaviorist.