School Update, and Please Help Me Figure out a Remedy

[anonomom]

I posted two weeks ago about DD1's Third Grade class having little instruction and too much unstructured time. (here: http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/sho...=public+school). I followed up as I planned to in that thread -- I asked the teacher when they'd be starting science and/or social studies, and the started a unit last Tuesday. Since then, I've been asking DD every day what they've done.

In the last week, DD's class has read this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/051...pf_rd_i=507846 and spent two days making their own "Me On the Map" books independently while the teacher was at her computer. I'm in shock that a book aimed at preschoolers is being used as the sole instructional component of their current SS unit. The class also continues to have almost an hour of free-reading time built into its schedule.

To be fair, they have also had two science lessons with another teacher, and that material seems age appropriate.

For background, there are 8 other third grade classes in DD's school. Her schoolmates have been learning about the American government -- the three branches, separation of powers, etc. The parents in those classes tell me the units were very in-depth and even the parents learned something from the materials coming home. There is one other class that is as behind as DDs, but to my knowledge every other 3rd grade class will have completed either a social studies or science unit by tomorrow.

So, we are requesting a meeting with the teacher next week. I plan to ask her to show me the 3rd grade science and SS curriculum and tell her I'm concerned that DD's class is (and will be) behind the rest of the grade. I may also ask to observe class one day. Beyond that, what kind of remedy can I suggest? I'm guessing "teach better" would neither be helpful nor well received. :-) And demanding a different class is likely to be a non-starter. Is it enough to let the teacher know I'm unhappy and that I'm paying attention?

(we are also busily researching private, charter and magnet schools, but none of these is an immediate fix).

[westwoodmom04]

I posted two weeks ago about DD1's Third Grade class having little instruction and too much unstructured time. (here: http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/sho...=public+school). I followed up as I planned to in that thread -- I asked the teacher when they'd be starting science and/or social studies, and the started a unit last Tuesday. Since then, I've been asking DD every day what they've done.

In the last week, DD's class has read this book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/051...pf_rd_i=507846 and spent two days making their own "Me On the Map" books independently while the teacher was at her computer. I'm in shock that a book aimed at preschoolers is being used as the sole instructional component of their current SS unit. The class also continues to have almost an hour of free-reading time built into its schedule.

To be fair, they have also had two science lessons with another teacher, and that material seems age appropriate.

For background, there are 8 other third grade classes in DD's school. Her schoolmates have been learning about the American government -- the three branches, separation of powers, etc. The parents in those classes tell me the units were very in-depth and even the parents learned something from the materials coming home. There is one other class that is as behind as DDs, but to my knowledge every other 3rd grade class will have completed either a social studies or science unit by tomorrow.

So, we are requesting a meeting with the teacher next week. I plan to ask her to show me the 3rd grade science and SS curriculum and tell her I'm concerned that DD's class is (and will be) behind the rest of the grade. I may also ask to observe class one day. Beyond that, what kind of remedy can I suggest? I'm guessing "teach better" would neither be helpful nor well received. :-) And demanding a different class is likely to be a non-starter. Is it enough to let the teacher know I'm unhappy and that I'm paying attention?

(we are also busily researching private, charter and magnet schools, but none of these is an immediate fix).

I think you are starting at the right place, give the teacher a chance to explain herself. If you are not satisfied with the her answers and believe her class is not on the same pace as the rest of the grade, you could meet with the principal and ask to have your daughter moved. I'd only do that if you have a reasonable expectation that would actually happen, otherwise, your daughter might wind up staying in the same class as a pissed off teacher.

[pinkmomagain]

I think I would come at it that you are hoping to get her help in understanding the science and ss curriculum, the units she is covering over the year, and what they've done so far. And then listen. If at that point it's not matching up to the other classes, then bring up what you've heard from other parents and ask her what her reasoning is behind her class doing things differently. If after this you are still concerned, I'd let her know. Overall, I would not be confrontational...I would come at it from the perspective of trying to understand. I'd be surprised if you would be allowed to observe the class, to be honest.

[BohdiTree]

I really feel for you! We are experiencing the exact same thing this year with my DD's teacher in 2nd. ( I've been lurking for a while and this is the post that motivated me to sign up!) I read your original post several weeks ago when it was becoming obvious that we were experiencing the same things. I took the route of enlisting other parents to help me address the concern. Luckily there were several other parents who shared our concerns and one of them was very vocal. We all sent emails, talked to her after class, and asked for meetings. She finally got the message and things have improved. It's no where near what the other 2nd grade classes are getting, but much better than it was. DD is my first child, so I am learning as I go, and one thing I've learned from this experience is that not every teacher is a rock star. We had awesome grade K & 1 teachers. Grade 2 is a meh experience. IIWY, I would enlist other parents to bring their concerns to the teacher, either together or separately. Knowing that parents are watching and have expectations puts on the pressure, and it should help. At least it did for us. So far, we have gotten our concerns addressed and have not needed to go to the principal.

[HannaAddict]

I would not want parents in observing my child's class. That is a disruption, especially a parent itching for a confrontation and "observing" isn't going to tell you much. I wouldn't believe that is all that is being taught either as kids are rather poor historians, both of your class and the other classes. I would meet with the teacher and listen openly to what they are teaching and share your perceptions that perhaps this class isn't as in depth. I would not count on your child being moved either. I would try and take a deep breath and give the teacher a chance.

[KpbS]

Well, I replied in the other thread that I would ask to have her moved to a different class. And that is what I would do now also. I would ask the principal for a meeting this week, tomorrow. I think this teacher/class situation is a dud for whatever reason. She might be a perfectly nice person, but there is simply not nearly enough teaching going on in the class, during the school day period.

If the administration can not accommodate a move to a different class, I would switch her to a charter/magnet/private at the end of the quarter. No sense in having a wasted year, imo.

[HannaAddict]

Well, I replied in the other thread that I would ask to have her moved to a different class. And that is what I would do now also. I would ask the principal for a meeting this week, tomorrow. I think this teacher/class situation is a dud for whatever reason. She might be a perfectly nice person, but there is simply not nearly enough teaching going on in the class, during the school day period.

If the administration can not accommodate a move to a different class, I would switch her to a charter/magnet/private at the end of the quarter. No sense in having a wasted year, imo.

We attend private school but i have many friends who attend public and the option of switching classes is just not on the table at all. A school with eight classes in one grade is unheard of around here for public (2-3 classes a grade and the insane five classes a grade in APP program), and with that large a school I doubt they will agree to switching to a "better" class based on a month of teaching. I would tread carefully about going to the principal first as I think teachers deserve the professionalism and respect of other professions where a client (the parent) should raise concerns with the teacher first and give them a chance before going to their boss. A good principal will back up their teacher too unless there is a huge problem, not just that a parent, based on their child's reports and other kids' reports, thinks the class is or will be behind the other classes. It sounds like the OP has a good idea to talk to the teacher and better understand the curriculum and maybe find out if there are things covered that the parent is unaware of, and what the plan is going forward and why the class might differ from the reports from the other classes.

[bisous]

Honestly, I wouldn't make a huge fuss over lack of science or SS curriculum. I know that sounds terrible! But I'm a history major and I homeschooled my young elementary kids and I honestly think that those two subjects are the very easiest to supplement with a rich life (museums and good books) and the least likely to cause a student to "fall behind". I think I'd be just fine even if my DSs' teachers didn't cover those subjects at all. Not because I don't think they are important (I Do!) but because I think they are super easy to supplement at home and an interested and curious child can go much further and deeper than most of the SS and science curriculums that I've seen. On the other hand, a poor language arts program or mathematics program would be a huge problem for me! Even breakdowns in classroom discipline would be more concerning. Isn't it sad how much mediocrity we can put up with in a public school? Yet if language arts, math and classroom management was strong, I'd be okay with crummy science. I do think that from what I've read in your posts (and I could be wrong) that science and SS is only one of your concern's with your DD's class. Am I right? Because there are plenty of things I remember that would just not be acceptable to me. Like the basically the entire day having free time etc.

Is the teacher young? If she's experienced, she most likely won't respond well simply to your request that you change lessons around. At least that hasn't been my experience. I have known parents with good experience requesting a classroom change. I might start there. But really, I must say your experiences HAVE been really frustrating. It does seem like maybe the school isn't serving your family's needs very well. I think outside of exploring other schooling options, I'd try to figure out how much I'd like to press on which issues. I have had success maintaining a friendly relationship with schools. However, I have discovered that once a school decides they don't want to cooperate with you, nothing short of actual litigation can move them to your direction. (My experience was in a very different situation but I only got results once I actually consulted a lawyer!) I've had both terrific success working with teachers and schools (at my current charter school) and horrible experience with both teachers and administrations. Best of luck as you try to figure this out.

[anonomom]

Well, I replied in the other thread that I would ask to have her moved to a different class. And that is what I would do now also. I would ask the principal for a meeting this week, tomorrow. I think this teacher/class situation is a dud for whatever reason. She might be a perfectly nice person, but there is simply not nearly enough teaching going on in the class, during the school day period.

If the administration can not accommodate a move to a different class, I would switch her to a charter/magnet/private at the end of the quarter. No sense in having a wasted year, imo.

As Hanna Addict said, switching classes is likely not an option at our school. I've known parents will much worse situations not be able to get their kids away from teachers who were borderline abusive. We are visiting a ton of other schools and if we find somewhere that we know is better, we will pull DD. Unfortunately, we can't do that quickly or on a whim, since if it doesn't work out DD may not have the option of returning to this public school (due to our county's near-constant redistricting). If we risk shutting her out of this school entirely, we need to know that any alternative we choose is unequivocally better.

We attend private school but i have many friends who attend public and the option of switching classes is just not on the table at all. A school with eight classes in one grade is unheard of around here for public (2-3 classes a grade and the insane five classes a grade in APP program), and with that large a school I doubt they will agree to switching to a "better" class based on a month of teaching. I would tread carefully about going to the principal first as I think teachers deserve the professionalism and respect of other professions where a client (the parent) should raise concerns with the teacher first and give them a chance before going to their boss. A good principal will back up their teacher too unless there is a huge problem, not just that a parent, based on their child's reports and other kids' reports, thinks the class is or will be behind the other classes. It sounds like the OP has a good idea to talk to the teacher and better understand the curriculum and maybe find out if there are things covered that the parent is unaware of, and what the plan is going forward and why the class might differ from the reports from the other classes.

I do agree that all teachers deserve to be treated like professionals. That's part of why I'm so frustrated, to be honest. DD has had two very bad and one indifferent teacher at this school (not including this year's, because the jury is still out) and I have made excuses and kept my mouth shut and just tried to be ever more supportive because I know that teachers in my state are treated like last week's trash. The fact that I am frustrated and hypersensitive now is largely my own fault because I let so much slide without complaining to the school for the last several years. But I'm at the breaking point and no longer willing to be patient and hope things improve. And I am wary of relying solely on a child's report, so I have been gathering as much info as I can. I've seen the homework and study guides for at least three other classes, plus the information the teachers post on their own websites. They are all way ahead of where DD's class is (for one thing, they have had homework and study guides).

Honestly, I wouldn't make a huge fuss over lack of science or SS curriculum. I know that sounds terrible! But I'm a history major and I homeschooled my young elementary kids and I honestly think that those two subjects are the very easiest to supplement with a rich life (museums and good books) and the least likely to cause a student to "fall behind". I think I'd be just fine even if my DSs' teachers didn't cover those subjects at all. Not because I don't think they are important (I Do!) but because I think they are super easy to supplement at home and an interested and curious child can go much further and deeper than most of the SS and science curriculums that I've seen. On the other hand, a poor language arts program or mathematics program would be a huge problem for me! Even breakdowns in classroom discipline would be more concerning. Isn't it sad how much mediocrity we can put up with in a public school? Yet if language arts, math and classroom management was strong, I'd be okay with crummy science. I do think that from what I've read in your posts (and I could be wrong) that science and SS is only one of your concern's with your DD's class. Am I right? Because there are plenty of things I remember that would just not be acceptable to me. Like the basically the entire day having free time etc.

Is the teacher young? If she's experienced, she most likely won't respond well simply to your request that you change lessons around. At least that hasn't been my experience. I have known parents with good experience requesting a classroom change. I might start there. But really, I must say your experiences HAVE been really frustrating. It does seem like maybe the school isn't serving your family's needs very well. I think outside of exploring other schooling options, I'd try to figure out how much I'd like to press on which issues. I have had success maintaining a friendly relationship with schools. However, I have discovered that once a school decides they don't want to cooperate with you, nothing short of actual litigation can move them to your direction. (My experience was in a very different situation but I only got results once I actually consulted a lawyer!) I've had both terrific success working with teachers and schools (at my current charter school) and horrible experience with both teachers and administrations. Best of luck as you try to figure this out.

I actually agree (to a point) on SS/Science instruction. In past years, it wouldn't even have occurred to me to ask what was going on and this year, it's not even really about the specific material. I am mostly angry that my kid spent three weeks with no instruction at all and now that the teacher has finally started, she's giving preschool-level lessons while the rest of the grade is doing actual work. DD (thankfully) isn't in this class for ELA and I don't have a clear picture of how math is going (though I know she is actually getting math instruction, so that's something).

FWIW, I have been talking to parents of kids who have gone through this school, and they unanimously tell me that third grade sucks (as do Kindergarten and Second), but that if we can just hold on, fourth and fifth grade are much better. I'm just trying to decide how much more bad I am willing to abide in the hopes that at some point things will start going right for DD at this school. And I am furious and sad that a school where 3 out of six years are likely to be awful is considered the "best in town."

[llama8]

I would investigate private schools if you can afford it. It is a shame that you and your daughter have to put up with an inferior education to possibly get to 2-3 good years. My 4 year old DD1 is in K at private school and they have a challenging curriculum that incorporates all of the subjects, including SS. It is appropriate and my DD comes home happy everyday and learning. It is very well structured all the way to 8th grade. I am a teacher, so a good curriculum is important to me. I would not be happy if a preschool book was used as a main lesson component in a 3rd grade class. It sounds as if the teacher is using instructional time to get things done on a regular basis, as opposed to once in a while at the expense of a solid education. Good luck. (Public school usually does not allow switching teachers but that may be worth a try too).