IEP meeting help please-- feeling stupid and inadequate

[hillview]

We have a meeting with DS2's school on Friday. DS2 just had his most recent neuropsych eval. He is 7, this was a follow up eval from one we did when he was 5. This latest report gives him a diagnosis of NLD/NVLD. Currently DS2 has a 504 for sensory, behavior, attention and anxiety issues (sit with quite children. front of room, take breaks etc). We had to fight hard to get a 504 and really wanted an IEP.

The most recent neuropsych eval is from a very highly regarded eval organization. DS2 had brain surgery as an infant and his school has agreed that based on the 100s of pages of medical reports DS2 at some point would qualify based on the brain surgery. The report reads:

"Given DS2's new diagnosis, I recommend that DS2's team reconvene to develop an Individualized Education Program (IEP). He should likely be considered eligible under the disability category of Neurological.

"DS2 should have IEP goals for sensorimotor skills and social pragmatics with accompanying benchmarks in each area.

"DS2's sensorimotor skills will be best addressed through work with an occupational therapist (i.e., twice a week for 30 minutes per session). Within these sessions, DS2 should work on developing his self-awareness and self-regulation. Specific curricula and techniques should be included to introduce concepts and develop the skills. Examples of techniques that would be appropriate for DS2 include Zones of Regulation, Social Stories (www.thegraycenter.org), or Social Thinking (www.socialthinking.com).

"Occupational therapy should also be used to work on DS2's fine motor skills and graphomotor output. Because he tends to produce work at a slower pace, this is likely to become a source of frustration for him and will also hinder his writing skills and note-taking. Assistive technology should also be explored; for example, DS2 should be exposed to typing at an early age.


"The occupational therapist should also provide consultation to the classroom teacher(s) in order to develop environmental accommodations to help DS2 better regulate his behavior within the classroom. For example, he will require motor breaks and might also benefit from tools such as a medicine ball or chair bands.

"DS2 exhibits ongoing difficulties with social cognition; specifically, he tends to be inflexible, misinterprets social cues, and is sometimes overly literal. Accordingly, he should participate in a weekly social skills group that is run by a provider with experience working with students with similar profiles (e.g., students with NLD, ADHD, social anxiety). The group should emphasize development of self-awareness, positive relationships, self-esteem, problem-solving, and conflict resolution. This social skills group should be comprised of peers who are similar to DS2 in terms of age, cognitive functioning, and social needs. It may be useful to utilize a structured program such as Social Thinking (www.socialthinking.com). Furthermore, I endorse DS2's continued participation in extracurricular activities to provide him with additional social opportunities."

Ok if you read all that [thank you!!] -- what can I do to prep for the meeting? I have emailed the advocate we worked with in the beginning of the year to see if she can join in our meeting but should we end up going into the meeting alone any thoughts. We went to a Wrightslaw conference we also have all the books and yet I still feel so STUPID and inadequate to handle this (and yet I am not stupid usually).

Thanks!!

[Gena]

Is this specifically an IEP meeting or is it a planning meeting?

When was the last time the school did a full evaluation? If it was more than a year ago, you will probably need to start the process with a full eval by the school. Even though you have had a thorough private eval, school districts like to do their own. Make sure to request that the eval includes all areas of concern: speech (request a test that includes a pragmatic language profile), fine and gross motor skills, sensory issues, adaptive behavior (this generally includes social skills), etc. You will need to consider whether you want to include IQ and/or achievement testing.

The school is supposed to consider your private eval, but IME they give their own evals more weight. These are the evals that will determine his eligibility for an IEP and the disability category.

The disability categories for an IEP is set by IDEA and there's is no category called "neurological", so I'm not sure what your doctor means by that. Unless he's using that in place of TBI, which is an IDEA category. (I'm not familiar with TBI, so I don't know if that includes a history if brain surgery). But I do know kids with NVLD who have disability categories of Otherwise Health Impaired or Autism. Keep in mind that educational classifications are not the same as medical diagnoses, so the medical and educational terms may not be the same.

Hugs. It's hard. You are definitely not stupid or inadequate, but it is easy to get overwhelmed in these meetings.

[hillview]

Is this specifically an IEP meeting or is it a planning meeting?

Ok so I don't know, I asked for a meeting following the new neuropsych eval. Not sure of the official name of the meeting, should I do something via email?

When was the last time the school did a full evaluation? If it was more than a year ago, you will probably need to start the process with a full eval by the school. Even though you have had a thorough private eval, school districts like to do their own. Make sure to request that the eval includes all areas of concern: speech (request a test that includes a pragmatic language profile), fine and gross motor skills, sensory issues, adaptive behavior (this generally includes social skills), etc. You will need to consider whether you want to include IQ and/or achievement testing.

The school is supposed to consider your private eval, but IME they give their own evals more weight. These are the evals that will determine his eligibility for an IEP and the disability category.

In September the school told us the completely accepted his private evaluation and didn't need to or want to do their own. It is the same company that did this new one but the school had not said anything about if they accept or don't this new evaluation. I have been assuming they would accept it again (and had not actually thought of this).

The disability categories for an IEP is set by IDEA and there's is no category called "neurological", so I'm not sure what your doctor means by that. Unless he's using that in place of TBI, which is an IDEA category. (I'm not familiar with TBI, so I don't know if that includes a history if brain surgery). But I do know kids with NVLD who have disability categories of Otherwise Health Impaired or Autism. Keep in mind that educational classifications are not the same as medical diagnoses, so the medical and educational terms may not be the same.

Hugs. It's hard. You are definitely not stupid or inadequate, but it is easy to get overwhelmed in these meetings.

The state of Mass has a flow chart
http://www.doe.mass.edu/sped/iep/forms/pdf/ED1.pdf
Neurological is part of the first step to qualification.

Thanks! I know I can figure this out but just not feeling very educated right now. It seems very slippery.

[egoldber]

That chart does not seem legal to me, depending on how they define "adequate progress". A child can qualify for special education even if they are working on grade level. These are the 13 categories that Gena referred to: http://www.parentcenterhub.org/repository/categories/

In my state, a neurological impairment that is not a result of a brain injury would fall under "OHI" or other health impairment, which is the same category used for ADHD. My younger DD's IEP is under OHI for severe ADHD. My older DD qualified for an IEP under 2 categories: OHI for ADHD and also ED for severe anxiety. I was afraid of the ED label, but it's been fine for her. But you do need to be careful about the types of classroom placement this can mean in some districts.

I would contact the school and ask them exactly what type of meeting this is. In our state, there are 3 stages of meetings in the special education qualification process. You want this meeting to be one of these 3 types, not just a "general discussion" meeting. Here are the 3 meeting types we have:

1) A "local screening committee" meeting is when the committee gathers to determine if there is a need for an evaluation for special education services. They also decide at this meeting if an IEP is on the table or if only a 504 is being considered. At this meeting they determine whether or not additional testing is needed to determine eligibility for special education services.

2) The next meeting is when they go over the results as a team and determine whether or not the child qualifies for special education services under one of the 13 categories, and whether it should be a 504 or an IEP. (In many places there is a "pre meeting" before this where they go over the results with the parents 1-1. In my district, they generally hint to you in this meeting if they will be giving an IEP.) If the committee decided the child qualifies under one of the categories for an IEP/504, then they schedule the NEXT meeting.

3) At this meeting, they determine what accommodations (504) and/or services (IEP) will be offered by the school and what those will consist of and how many hours the child should receive per week (for an IEP). This becomes the actual 504 or IEP document.

Now, in your case since you already have a full set of testing, it's possible they could combine some of these meetings. With my older DD we walked into the first meeting with a full eval and they combined the first 2 meetings in the first meeting. This was when she got her 504. But when she was older and we decided we wanted an IEP, they did all 3 meetings. The school did some testing and we had some testing done privately. With my younger DD, we did all 3 meetings, but the school did all the testing, we didn't do any testing privately.

When you talk to the school, you need to explicitly say that you want a meeting to discuss eligibility for an IEP. Our district has a specific form that the parent fills out to request this meeting and in that form you can indicate if you want to only consider a 504 or also an IEP.

When I read through what your evaluator wrote, my concern would be that many of those things are suggested as ways to improve overall functioning. But what the school will be concerned about it is how to make him successful in the classroom. I would concentrate on having the IEP include the things you think that he needs for that.

Oh and you are definitely not stupid or uninformed! It is HARD to get this info. What I have listed above took me several years and 2 kids to work out. The school are often not at all transparent about this and have been known to give parents who didn't know to request meetings in a certain way the run around by not following the process. I realize in retrospect that older DD's first school did this a LOT. Younger DD's school has been much more transparent, but OTOH her needs are also a lot more readily evident than older DD's needs were.

[sste]

Hill, I might prepare a few things:

1. Some sort of list or chart for your own reference and discussion with the school of enumerated ways the social and OT pieces have impaired his access to the general curriculum. Is there any evidence in that testing that shows he cannot write fast enough to keep up? Any work samples you can bring in that are incomplete due to him running out of time due to slow writing? Any incidents with approximate dates of when your DS or the teacher reported social or OT concerns and specifically how this impacted his ability to benefit from school curriculum. A lot of people keep logs and record incidents, their child coming home upset about something at school, anything that builds an evidence base for disability that is impacting classroom functioning.

2. I would also bring for distribution a list or chart of ALL of the outside services your DS has received and continues to receive -- hours, dates, etc. Legally there is an obligation to take into account when the child is being kept afloat via outside services.

3. If the meeting does not go the way you want I would bring with you your written request for a comprehensive IEE for sld, social-emotional, speech, and OT at public expense (in other words, whatever they previously evaluated and said he didn't qualify for services for). Whip it out at the end, write hand delivered and the date, and hand it to them. You are ready to play ball, kwim.

4. Do you have any evidence, meeting notes, anything of your prior meeting when they encouraged you to retain DS? IMO, it calls into question their child find obligations to retain a child (who has private evals showing disability areas and receives hours of private services weekly) and then say that child is not disabled. They have state and federal obligations to find and identify children with disabilities.

5. It is very hard to wrangle services out of a lot of these schools. It is not you.

6. Timing counts for a lot. If you can find a time period when your son is having outbursts in school or you have any documentation from the teacher about his handwriting etc., then strike (again) when the iron is hot. My son got his IEP (with much bulldozing on my part) because we had him tested and identified before he receive a lot of services in early first grade. He has received over 150 hours of orton gillingham/Wilson dyslexia services ON TOP of his school day and he is now at the 24th percentile for reading based on age, a little higher based on grade. It would have been harder to qualify him at this point in time because they consider 25th percentile average and therefore the argument is he is average it is not impeding access and function in the classroom. However, I can keep him an IEP for a while longer with the argument that he only got to slightly below average/average by virtue of his services (this in in fact true there was no sudden click, it was hours upon hours of work). The school knew all of this and that is why they totally opposed my getting an IEP early. In your case, I would keep logs, journals, all of his take home work, every communication from the teacher to build your case and, assuming you are not successful this go around, leap on it as soon as he starts having documentable issues. I know some people that have had to stop private services in order to build that case . . . I would personally be reluctant to do that, esp given the variable quality of the school services you may receive after this sh*t ton of fighting.

[hillview]

That chart does not seem legal to me, depending on how they define "adequate progress". A child can qualify for special education even if they are working on grade level. These are the 13 categories that Gena referred to: http://www.parentcenterhub.org/repository/categories/

In my state, a neurological impairment that is not a result of a brain injury would fall under "OHI" or other health impairment, which is the same category used for ADHD. My younger DD's IEP is under OHI for severe ADHD. My older DD qualified for an IEP under 2 categories: OHI for ADHD and also ED for severe anxiety. I was afraid of the ED label, but it's been fine for her. But you do need to be careful about the types of classroom placement this can mean in some districts.

I think he qualifies under Traumatic Brain Injury in the above link -- he had hydrocephalus as an infant and brain surgery to correct this. Ok THANK YOU for saying that it seems off. The "effective progress" is what TOTALLY throws me off. He is at grade level (we have 3x a week tutoring AND he stayed back a year) AND I think he qualifies for services. I do worry about his placement later in the school district -- right now there does not seem to be any concerns about this (but really I have no idea) -- the school team has told us repeatedly that he is doing well and would not fit in with the kids in special needs groups. Specifically in social groups he "wouldn't fit in."

I would contact the school and ask them exactly what type of meeting this is. In our state, there are 3 stages of meetings in the special education qualification process. You want this meeting to be one of these 3 types, not just a "general discussion" meeting. Here are the 3 meeting types we have:

1) A "local screening committee" meeting is when the committee gathers to determine if there is a need for an evaluation for special education services. They also decide at this meeting if an IEP is on the table or if only a 504 is being considered. At this meeting they determine whether or not additional testing is needed to determine eligibility for special education services.

2) The next meeting is when they go over the results as a team and determine whether or not the child qualifies for special education services under one of the 13 categories, and whether it should be a 504 or an IEP. (In many places there is a "pre meeting" before this where they go over the results with the parents 1-1. In my district, they generally hint to you in this meeting if they will be giving an IEP.) If the committee decided the child qualifies under one of the categories for an IEP/504, then they schedule the NEXT meeting.

3) At this meeting, they determine what accommodations (504) and/or services (IEP) will be offered by the school and what those will consist of and how many hours the child should receive per week (for an IEP). This becomes the actual 504 or IEP document.

Now, in your case since you already have a full set of testing, it's possible they could combine some of these meetings. With my older DD we walked into the first meeting with a full eval and they combined the first 2 meetings in the first meeting. This was when she got her 504. But when she was older and we decided we wanted an IEP, they did all 3 meetings. The school did some testing and we had some testing done privately. With my younger DD, we did all 3 meetings, but the school did all the testing, we didn't do any testing privately.

When you talk to the school, you need to explicitly say that you want a meeting to discuss eligibility for an IEP. Our district has a specific form that the parent fills out to request this meeting and in that form you can indicate if you want to only consider a 504 or also an IEP.

Thanks for all this -- I will ask about the steps and what meeting type this is and ask for an IEP oriented meeting. This is so helpful!

When I read through what your evaluator wrote, my concern would be that many of those things are suggested as ways to improve overall functioning. But what the school will be concerned about it is how to make him successful in the classroom. I would concentrate on having the IEP include the things you think that he needs for that.

Beth can you please say more about this -- I don't think I totally understand are you saying we need to work on tying what the evaluator said he needs to specific progress in school? Eg OT is needed so he can do his writing in school specifically?

Oh and you are definitely not stupid or uninformed! It is HARD to get this info. What I have listed above took me several years and 2 kids to work out. The school are often not at all transparent about this and have been known to give parents who didn't know to request meetings in a certain way the run around by not following the process. I realize in retrospect that older DD's first school did this a LOT. Younger DD's school has been much more transparent, but OTOH her needs are also a lot more readily evident than older DD's needs were.

THANKS!!

Hill, I might prepare a few things:
1. Some sort of list or chart for your own reference and discussion with the school of enumerated ways the social and OT pieces have impaired his access to the general curriculum. Is there any evidence in that testing that shows he cannot write fast enough to keep up? Any work samples you can bring in that are incomplete due to him running out of time due to slow writing? Any incidents with approximate dates of when your DS or the teacher reported social or OT concerns and specifically how this impacted his ability to benefit from school curriculum. A lot of people keep logs and record incidents, their child coming home upset about something at school, anything that builds an evidence base for disability that is impacting classroom functioning.

2. I would also bring for distribution a list or chart of ALL of the outside services your DS has received and continues to receive -- hours, dates, etc. Legally there is an obligation to take into account when the child is being kept afloat via outside services.

3. If the meeting does not go the way you want I would bring with you your written request for a comprehensive IEE for sld, social-emotional, speech, and OT at public expense (in other words, whatever they previously evaluated and said he didn't qualify for services for). Whip it out at the end, write hand delivered and the date, and hand it to them. You are ready to play ball, kwim.

4. Do you have any evidence, meeting notes, anything of your prior meeting when they encouraged you to retain DS? IMO, it calls into question their child find obligations to retain a child (who has private evals showing disability areas and receives hours of private services weekly) and then say that child is not disabled. They have state and federal obligations to find and identify children with disabilities.

5. It is very hard to wrangle services out of a lot of these schools. It is not you.

6. Timing counts for a lot. If you can find a time period when your son is having outbursts in school or you have any documentation from the teacher about his handwriting etc., then strike (again) when the iron is hot. My son got his IEP (with much bulldozing on my part) because we had him tested and identified before he receive a lot of services in early first grade. He has received over 150 hours of orton gillingham/Wilson dyslexia services ON TOP of his school day and he is now at the 24th percentile for reading based on age, a little higher based on grade. It would have been harder to qualify him at this point in time because they consider 25th percentile average and therefore the argument is he is average it is not impeding access and function in the classroom. However, I can keep him an IEP for a while longer with the argument that he only got to slightly below average/average by virtue of his services (this in in fact true there was no sudden click, it was hours upon hours of work). The school knew all of this and that is why they totally opposed my getting an IEP early. In your case, I would keep logs, journals, all of his take home work, every communication from the teacher to build your case and, assuming you are not successful this go around, leap on it as soon as he starts having documentable issues. I know some people that have had to stop private services in order to build that case . . . I would personally be reluctant to do that, esp given the variable quality of the school services you may receive after this sh*t ton of fighting.

Thank you for all of this -- so helpful -- very specific. We have some good notes. The idea about the written request for them to do a comprehensive eval if they don't accept ours is a great idea.

Thanks to everyone who replied. I feel like I am learning!

[egoldber]

the school team has told us repeatedly that he is doing well and would not fit in with the kids in special needs groups. Specifically in social groups he "wouldn't fit in."

So I would interpret this as the school telling you that the groups available at the school are for kids with needs a lot more severe than his. And these groups do tend to work best when the kids in the group are more evenly matched in need and there are also more typical peers as well.

I don't think I totally understand are you saying we need to work on tying what the evaluator said he needs to specific progress in school? Eg OT is needed so he can do his writing in school specifically?

Well, that's part of it. But I also think that if you go in with a long list if suggested services, they are just going to say no.

I would not come in with a list, but I would suggest to them 2-3 categories of goals. Under those goals, I would have 1-3 suggested concrete interventions. I would not necessarily lead with that card, but I would have them ready.

Did you ask the school yet about exactly what type of meeting this is? The above is really more appropriate for an IEP goal setting meeting vs. a meeting to decide if an evaluation is needed?

If they say "this is a general meeting", then I would tell them to you want an IEP screening meeting. And tell them you have a full evaluation with suggested recommendations. Have you shared the report with the school?

[hillview]

thanks yes the school has the report. I have an email into the school about the meeting type -- no update yet

[egoldber]

If you didn't hear anything today, I would call.

[hillview]

If you didn't hear anything today, I would call.

thanks -- I emailed again. He replied to me on another topic (DS2 feeling threatened). I will call in the am. Thanks Beth!