AP European History WHY???

[bisous]

This is sort of a rant but sort of a discussion question. Why is this the social sciences course for high achieving high school sophmores?

We're setting up DS1's schedule for next year and we're trying to decide whether to do the accelerated courses (Honors, AP, IB) or the college prep classes for everything. He did really well with Honors English this year and he'd like to continue next year BUT he can only take it if he ALSO takes European History AP and that's frustrating.

Because I think that is a dumb class for high schoolers to take! I don't have a problem with European History at all. I actually have an MA in Medieval History. I just think that the CP option, World History, presents a much more balanced and useful course for high schoolers! I can't imagine knowing only about European royalty and not about the history of Egypt or China or many of the other topics the CP class will undoubtedly cover. As a history major, I feel like the World History curriculum is much better for general mastery of the subject of history and for preparation for college! I wish that was an option for my honors/AP/IB bound kid.

I think we'll probably end up doing CP English and History. While DS1 has taken mostly honors classes this year, I don't think he necessarily NEEDS to take every single class available. At the same time, I'm sad he'll have to skip out on English Honors this coming year. He loves reading, writing, and great literature.

But does anyone else think that the kids who are high achievers are getting cheated out of a better high school experience by having this be the required coursework for high school sophmores? I feel like in this day and age, European History just seems so much less relevant and useful than a curriculum in World History could be.

Did any of you run into this problem with your kids in high school? Or otherwise wants to weigh in on the subject?

[Philly Mom]

Well European history was my favorite class ever. It motivated me in ways no other class did.

[bisous]

Well European history was my favorite class ever. It motivated me in ways no other class did.

Actually that's good to hear! As an Medievalist I love the subject too. I was just thinking (and knowing my own child) that otherwise he'll miss hearing about the Gupta Empire and Mali and the Mongol Conquests (that might touch Europe) and all those amazing stories. I'm too much of a history buff for my own good, lol.

I do think that it is good to remember that any high school course is going to be incomplete. Maybe the passion over a small section is better than a broad (and boring) swath.

[SnuggleBuggles]

This is sort of a rant but sort of a discussion question. Why is this the social sciences course for high achieving high school sophmores?

We're setting up DS1's schedule for next year and we're trying to decide whether to do the accelerated courses (Honors, AP, IB) or the college prep classes for everything. He did really well with Honors English this year and he'd like to continue next year BUT he can only take it if he ALSO takes European History AP and that's frustrating.

Because I think that is a dumb class for high schoolers to take! I don't have a problem with European History at all. I actually have an MA in Medieval History. I just think that the CP option, World History, presents a much more balanced and useful course for high schoolers! I can't imagine knowing only about European royalty and not about the history of Egypt or China or many of the other topics the CP class will undoubtedly cover. As a history major, I feel like the World History curriculum is much better for general mastery of the subject of history and for preparation for college! I wish that was an option for my honors/AP/IB bound kid.

I think we'll probably end up doing CP English and History. While DS1 has taken mostly honors classes this year, I don't think he necessarily NEEDS to take every single class available. At the same time, I'm sad he'll have to skip out on English Honors this coming year. He loves reading, writing, and great literature.

But does anyone else think that the kids who are high achievers are getting cheated out of a better high school experience by having this be the required coursework for high school sophmores? I feel like in this day and age, European History just seems so much less relevant and useful than a curriculum in World History could be.

Did any of you run into this problem with your kids in high school? Or otherwise wants to weigh in on the subject?

I'll weigh in...why is this a "we" decision? If he wants to take the class combo that includes it, he absolutely should get to make that decision. Also, it's only sophomore year- it's not like he can't take a more diverse history one of the other years (or double up, like some kids at our school do- kids with a passion double up subjects a lot, like ds1 will be taking 2 AP sciences next year and his friend is taking 2 AP history courses).

There are no requirements like that though- they simply need a math, English, history and some other classes each year. There aren't really any prerequisites as teachers can recommend that you can skip a level if you want.

[bisous]

I'll weigh in...why is this a "we" decision? If he wants to take the class combo that includes it, he absolutely should get to make that decision. Also, it's only sophomore year- it's not like he can't take a more diverse history one of the other years (or double up, like some kids at our school do- kids with a passion double up subjects a lot, like ds1 will be taking 2 AP sciences next year and his friend is taking 2 AP history courses).

There are no requirements like that though- they simply need a math, English, history and some other classes each year. There aren't really any prerequisites as teachers can recommend that you can skip a level if you want.

I have to sign the form, that's why I said "we". DS1 doesn't know which one to take. He really liked his English class but wants to specialize in science more than English or the social sciences. He plans on taking lots of science! By contrast, he won't have much room in his schedule for history. I emailed the counselor to get clarification on if there's really no other way to take honors English or if it will be a big deal if he skips honors his sophmore year, to pick it up again junior year. He just really wants to get as far as he can in science. Physics is his passion.

[essnce629]

I'll weigh in...why is this a "we" decision? If he wants to take the class combo that includes it, he absolutely should get to make that decision. Also, it's only sophomore year- it's not like he can't take a more diverse history one of the other years (or double up, like some kids at our school do- kids with a passion double up subjects a lot, like ds1 will be taking 2 AP sciences next year and his friend is taking 2 AP history courses).

There are no requirements like that though- they simply need a math, English, history and some other classes each year. There aren't really any prerequisites as teachers can recommend that you can skip a level if you want.

I agree 100% with this. DS1 is in 10th grade and I will have to sign his course form also, but all decisions and questions will be between him, his teachers, his advisor who he sees weekly, and the college counselor who also has to sign off on all course schedules for 10th grade and up. Any emails, etc would be for DS1 to be writing. The thought of emailing the counselor myself wouldn't even cross my mind. Once it's all been figured out by him, I'll sign it. He needs to learn to speak up, ask questions, and advocate for himself, just like he will have to do in college and life. I'd step back and have your DS figure it out. Also, FWIW DS1's school and most of the private schools and some charters in Los Angeles are phasing out all AP courses. Next year is the last year that DS1's school will off AP courses and I'm very happy about the decision. My only advice is for my DS1 is to take advanced classes in subjects he loves because that's where he's most likely to do well when he's genuinely interested in the subject.

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[Globetrotter]

I agree 100% with this. DS1 is in 10th grade and I will have to sign his course form also, but all decisions and questions will be between him, his teachers, his advisor who he sees weekly, and the college counselor who also has to sign off on all course schedules for 10th grade and up. Any emails, etc would be for DS1 to be writing. The thought of emailing the counselor myself wouldn't even cross my mind. Once it's all been figured out by him, I'll sign it. He needs to learn to speak up, ask questions, and advocate for himself, just like he will have to do in college and life. I'd step back and have your DS figure it out. Also, FWIW DS1's school and most of the private schools and some charters in Los Angeles are phasing out all AP courses. Next year is the last year that DS1's school will off AP courses and I'm very happy about the decision. My only advice is for my DS1 is to take advanced classes in subjects he loves because that's where he's most likely to do well when he's genuinely interested in the subject.

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your kid gets a lot of support from the school! Around here, they get a ONE TIME 10-15 minute slot with a counselor to figure it out and sign off - no advisors- and Did I mention the teachers are in pre-strike mode?
I definitely gave my input, though yes, my 10th grader made the final decision for next year’s classes.
OP, I agree with you that I would prefer world history, But I suppose he can take that later.

[ha98ed14]

Also, FWIW DS1's school and most of the private schools and some charters in Los Angeles are phasing out all AP courses. Next year is the last year that DS1's school will off AP courses and I'm very happy about the decision. My only advice is for my DS1 is to take advanced classes in subjects he loves because that's where he's most likely to do well when he's genuinely interested in the subject.

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I am in SoCal, too. What is the rationale behind phasing out AP classes? We have a few years till high school, but my DD is taking AP English as a 7th-8th grader (They teach it over 2 years and kids take the exam at the end of 8th grade.) This was introduced within the last 3 years, which is the opposite of phasing it out.

[essnce629]

I am in SoCal, too. What is the rationale behind phasing out AP classes? We have a few years till high school, but my DD is taking AP English as a 7th-8th grader (They teach it over 2 years and kids take the exam at the end of 8th grade.) This was introduced within the last 3 years, which is the opposite of phasing it out.

This article explains some of the criticisms surrounding AP courses:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...out-ap-program

Basically, AP courses are the ultimate teach to the test curriculum and the week by week syllabus for each AP course is determined by an outside entity (College Board). The AP teachers have no room to deviate from the set curriculum, which means they can't delve as deeply into the subject because they're pressed for time to get all the course material covered by the May deadlines. For many private schools, AP courses are completely opposite to their philosophies for learning, which usually include collaborative, experiential, and interdisciplinary learning. DS1's independent private school will be replacing their AP courses with advanced classes that mirror their philosophy.

When you apply to colleges each student's application has a 2 page attachment on it that lists every single class that was offered to that student, in each year, at their particular high school. The colleges want to see that students challenged themselves in the most rigorous classes offered at THEIR school. So if your high school offers AP courses, then yes, they'll expect you to take them and do well. And if your high school only offers honors and their own advanced curriculum then they will expect you to take those. All colleges will receive both an unweighted and weighted GPA and some schools even recalculate everyone's GPA based on their own calculation so taking the most advanced classes just for the GPA boost isn't the greatest idea.

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[westwoodmom04]

Private schools have definitely been phasing them out. The rationale is that ap classes aren’t any more rigorous than their other advanced classes and they want to design their own curriculum, not teach to a national test.