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  1. #31
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    Default WARNING Controversial topic Child porn arrest- Need help with finding a comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by TwinFoxes View Post
    The person in question had "videos of young girls on his computer." This does not happen by clicking on something. DOWNLOADING and storing child porn on a computer is completely different than scrolling through a porn site and clicking on links and thinking "huh, that cheerleader looks kinda young". I don't get why people are so willing to believe that child porn charges are brought easily. First of all you have to prove that the victims are indeed minors, so they have to be pre-pubescent. There's no way to prove that a 15 year old is not an 18 year old just by looking at them. Child porn is not the same as young looking 18 year olds dressed as a cheerleader. I'm not sure what your research was, but talk to a prosecutor sometime. When they charge someone with child porn, it's not anything accidental.

    This is how predators convince people they did nothing wrong. "I just clicked on something, and next thing you know I'm in jail. Woe is me." Show me one case where someone was prosecuted for simply clicking on a link. You say that nice guy abusers are the ones that communities rally around. Well, in this situation the community is trying to keep the pedophile away from kids, and the OP seemingly doesn't agree with this.

    I think it's been discussed on this board many times, and I don't think it comes as a shock to anyone here that it's friends and family who are most likely to be abusers. Which doesn't make the perpetrators any less sick.
    Thousand yes! I used to work with guys who were classified and registered as sexual offenders at my in-patient programs, and it is never accidental nor just few files.

    Think of files downloaded, saved to many flash drives in the thousands if not more. So it takes time, effort, lot of leg work among their networking to find those “of varying interests”.

    I had to run group therapy as part of breaking down their rationalization of how they got to be charged, arrested, placed on said registry and I’ve heard everything under the sun as to the why’s behind the behavior.




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  2. #32
    dogmom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by California View Post
    Dogmom, you quoted JBaxter as saying "not over and over," and then kind of proved her point. A few files might be accidental, maybe. But when you get to lots of files it's a clear sign of a repeated, conscious choice to view illegal (and more importantly cruelly obtained and unethical) images of children suffering sexual abuse.
    I am NOT defending anyone here. I am pushing back against the “the are all monsters, they all must be pedophiles” construct. The example at gave was of the old Buletin Board System. I think this is a female dominated board that tends to be a bit naive of how much porn many, many men watch. They used to download huge quantities every day. Now you don’t have to actually download. But yeah, a porn addict who is into adults is going to come across a lot. I do think it’s a lot different now. I absolutely agree that the guy was probably in possession of that porn on purpose. My point is if a man has 1000 images and videos and 10 are 14-15 year old girls I have no idea how much of a risk he is to the community. It’s absolutely wrong. He should pay. But a lot of adult porn is absolutely wrong because the woman did not give consent or had no choice. Yes, child porn is worse. It’s gotten better out there, it’s not as easy to trip across. But the big online sites are constantly policing themselves not to get in trouble because people upload stuff all the time in huge quantities. I am not excusing anyone’s behavior here.i was hesitant to bring it up. So you can argue with me about this kind of stuff, but it is getting no where about solving the underlying problem and preventing it. What we are doing is not working.

  3. #33
    dogmom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DualvansMommy View Post
    Thousand yes! I used to work with guys who were classified and registered as sexual offenders at my in-patient programs, and it is never accidental nor just few files.

    Think of files downloaded, saved to many flash drives in the thousands if not more. So it takes time, effort, lot of leg work among their networking to find those “of varying interests”.

    I had to run group therapy as part of breaking down their rationalization of how they got to be charged, arrested, placed on said registry and I’ve heard everything under the sun as to the why’s behind the behavior.
    Thank you. The persistence of the "I just accidentally clicked" myth pisses me off. People use it to excuse behavior all the time.
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  5. #35
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    Petesgirl I am genuinely curious, you sound like a very thoughtful and compassionate person but how can you be ‘kind and friendly’ to a convicted child molester? I’m not religious, so perhaps that’s the difference, but there is no way I would extend even the most basic of courtesies to anyone who has sexually interfered with a child. Even if it was a close family member, I would immediately cease all contact.

    Child molestation is the most heinous of all crimes, and one of the country’s preeminent prison psychologists told me that pedophiles are very rarely capable of changing behaviors (he said that, if given the opportunity, almost all would reoffend once released) and that very few are genuinely remorseful.

    The predator’s crimes destroy the lives of the victims but it so often goes beyond that. Many abused children end up becoming abusers, and the hideous cycle continues - your brother in law has wreaked devastation in ways we don’t even know yet. I am
    against capital punishment for almost all crimes but I wouldn’t shed a tear if every pedophile fried, quite frankly.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogmom View Post
    It's the family and friends, it's the family and friends, it's the family and friends. Can't say that enough times.

    I'm sure you mean current friends and family, but that is exactly why people are going to freak out in OP’s situation. It only takes a couple of times for a stranger to become just another parent hanging around and friendship forms. People do not what a chance for someone to become a friend. Look at how many move around and quickly become great friends with others before detection. If people can’t keep a person away, they’ll make sure their kids know to stay away which then makes life hell for the children of the man. It’s a hard situation all around.

    Quote Originally Posted by dogmom View Post
    I am NOT defending anyone here. I am pushing back against the “the are all monsters, they all must be pedophiles” construct. The example at gave was of the old Buletin Board System. I think this is a female dominated board that tends to be a bit naive of how much porn many, many men watch. They used to download huge quantities every day. Now you don’t have to actually download. But yeah, a porn addict who is into adults is going to come across a lot. I do think it’s a lot different now. I absolutely agree that the guy was probably in possession of that porn on purpose. My point is if a man has 1000 images and videos and 10 are 14-15 year old girls I have no idea how much of a risk he is to the community. It’s absolutely wrong. He should pay. But a lot of adult porn is absolutely wrong because the woman did not give consent or had no choice. Yes, child porn is worse. It’s gotten better out there, it’s not as easy to trip across. But the big online sites are constantly policing themselves not to get in trouble because people upload stuff all the time in huge quantities. I am not excusing anyone’s behavior here.i was hesitant to bring it up. So you can argue with me about this kind of stuff, but it is getting no where about solving the underlying problem and preventing it. What we are doing is not working.
    He likely wouldn’t be charged on this alone for 10 out of 1000 images which can be shown as never or rarely accessed. And if he were, a defense attorney would have a very easy day that day. These case are not easy to prosecute. On top of everything else, typically more than one person has access to a computer and IP address. [ETA: Also, code words to search and find illegal images are common, or they were years ago. ]

    There are all sorts of interesting debates you can get into on risks to community. For instance, is an adult who has a sexual relationship with one teen, but has otherwise never had a “thing” for children and teens more of a risk than someone who who hasn’t crossed that line into touching, but is absolutely attracted to children and seeks pornography?

    As far as recidivism rates, two things: not all crimes are equal and stakes are higher for others. And the very problem with studying rates on sex crimes and child pornography that looks at X years out, Y years out of jail or prison, is that it only loops in those who are re-arrested. How many sex crimes and child porno crimes go undetected? And how many when they are detected and arrested, it wasn’t the first time? I do not believe they are monsters and as we have seen over and over again, it affects every profession and section of society and people who are otherwise valuable members, if not leaders, in their communities and well loved by their families. That’s why I said I didn’t know what to do with them because the fact is, kids are everywhere, too. Serve time and then out into the world without treatment, just monitoring, being on lists which make it so people often have to live in not so nice neighborhoods which keeps the cycle going. I agree it isn't solving the problem and so many were themselves victims, too.

    OP, sorry to have taken this post away from your question. I wish you all the best. This is a tough situation.
    Last edited by specialp; 03-23-2019 at 06:44 AM.

  7. #37
    dogmom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    OK. I’m doing a really bad job of expressing myself. This isn’t exactly what I want, but it will do.
    Child porn is not a victimless crime.
    I don’t believe everyone watches child porn will abuse a child, but I suspect that most people who do sexually abuse children will have viewed child porn. But I have no idea what that means for public policy or safety.
    Of course the research in this area is paltry for many reasons, but you can’t even search for the research because google blocks the search term in any context, which is understandable.
    It’s not like just the same 1000 people are downloading this stuff, so someone here is married to someone who has. Not justifing anything, just stating.

    I found this article helpful years ago in understanding some of this, although it’s not a 1 to 1 match to the OP position. My next question would also be, when do you all plan on taking to your children about viewing this? How would you do it? It’s something we all need to address.

    https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-y...w-e11ce4b88bdb

  8. #38
    petesgirl is offline Emerald level (3000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotimesblue View Post
    Petesgirl I am genuinely curious, you sound like a very thoughtful and compassionate person but how can you be ‘kind and friendly’ to a convicted child molester? I’m not religious, so perhaps that’s the difference, but there is no way I would extend even the most basic of courtesies to anyone who has sexually interfered with a child. Even if it was a close family member, I would immediately cease all contact.

    Child molestation is the most heinous of all crimes, and one of the country’s preeminent prison psychologists told me that pedophiles are very rarely capable of changing behaviors (he said that, if given the opportunity, almost all would reoffend once released) and that very few are genuinely remorseful.

    The predator’s crimes destroy the lives of the victims but it so often goes beyond that. Many abused children end up becoming abusers, and the hideous cycle continues - your brother in law has wreaked devastation in ways we don’t even know yet. I am
    against capital punishment for almost all crimes but I wouldn’t shed a tear if every pedophile fried, quite frankly.
    And you see my dilemma!!
    I don't know yet what I will do/how I will do it! He still has probably 10 yrs in prison, although could get out early with good behavior yada yada... He was never a good dad to his kids before. Those kids have no chance of growing up without mental problems due to the incompetence of both their mom and dad. So I never felt comfortable having him alone with kids even before, but he lived with In laws and was impossible to avoid. I assume he will go back to their house.
    Maybe I mean that I will be cordial, more than friendly, like saying "hi, how are you?" When we see him at family parties, but that's about the extent of it. And I will watch him like a hawk so that I know where he is in relation to my kids at all times. (You know, keep your friends close and your enemies closer).

    Watching my in laws deal with this has just made me realize it could be my son one day. What would you do if it was YOUR son who did something horrible? How do you treat them afterwards? All I know is that no matter what I will always love my boys, even without excusing the wrongs that they might do, and that's how my in laws feel so they won't exclude him from the family. I really don't know yet how it will all turn out.
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  9. #39
    bisous is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by petesgirl View Post
    And you see my dilemma!!
    I don't know yet what I will do/how I will do it! He still has probably 10 yrs in prison, although could get out early with good behavior yada yada... He was never a good dad to his kids before. Those kids have no chance of growing up without mental problems due to the incompetence of both their mom and dad. So I never felt comfortable having him alone with kids even before, but he lived with In laws and was impossible to avoid. I assume he will go back to their house.
    Maybe I mean that I will be cordial, more than friendly, like saying "hi, how are you?" When we see him at family parties, but that's about the extent of it. And I will watch him like a hawk so that I know where he is in relation to my kids at all times. (You know, keep your friends close and your enemies closer).

    Watching my in laws deal with this has just made me realize it could be my son one day. What would you do if it was YOUR son who did something horrible? How do you treat them afterwards? All I know is that no matter what I will always love my boys, even without excusing the wrongs that they might do, and that's how my in laws feel so they won't exclude him from the family. I really don't know yet how it will all turn out.
    I don’t think it’s unkind to expect your kids to have zero contact with him. Child molestors are manipulative and children are susceptible to charismatic bad people. I am concerned with your MILs attitude. She should be worried about recidivism and any exposure her grandchildren might have. If it were me I’d spend time with BIL only with other adults (no kids) present and pretty much cut off all contact between him and my kids. If he lives at MILs house then your kids don’t go there any more. I feel like if he is truly remorseful for what he did he will not only understand your policy but will welcome it as part of his journey of repentance and I feel like your MIL should see it the same way. I can see this as being a difficult decision with your DHs family. I’m so sorry!

  10. #40
    Myira is offline Platinum level (1000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogmom View Post
    OK. I’m doing a really bad job of expressing myself. This isn’t exactly what I want, but it will do.
    Child porn is not a victimless crime.
    I don’t believe everyone watches child porn will abuse a child, but I suspect that most people who do sexually abuse children will have viewed child porn. But I have no idea what that means for public policy or safety.
    Of course the research in this area is paltry for many reasons, but you can’t even search for the research because google blocks the search term in any context, which is understandable.
    It’s not like just the same 1000 people are downloading this stuff, so someone here is married to someone who has. Not justifing anything, just stating.

    I found this article helpful years ago in understanding some of this, although it’s not a 1 to 1 match to the OP position. My next question would also be, when do you all plan on taking to your children about viewing this? How would you do it? It’s something we all need to address.

    https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-y...w-e11ce4b88bdb
    I actually am half way through the article you linked. Thanks for posting. I admit I’m feeling for that boy mentioned in the link and for his mom. How would I feel it my was my child going through the same thing? I cannot see that 16 year old boy as a monster, atleast at this point in his story. He is going through such a genuine struggle, and he is definitely not lacking empathy. He has the realization that he has something that isn’t normal and needs help. And what can I say about the incompetent therapist he sees.
    But overall, this whole territory seems to be unexplored in terms of why someone feels this way, how and whether they can get help, whether it’s something they can change or curb or rid themselves of.


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