WARNING Controversial topic Child porn arrest- Need help with finding a comparison

[bisous]

OP, these are my thoughts. I have some experience with this. DH has a cousin and I have a second cousin that both had similar stories. They were caught and convicted and served time in jail and now they are free. DHs cousins family deals with it by having the offender live with his step grandma and never having any contact with children. I think he had a job. His siblings are supportive to him emotionally but provide no excuses for what he did and he has no contact with their children. They try to emphasize that there are areas where he can contribute to society but he can never be near kids again. He was a single guy with no kids so he’s able to easily keep separated.

My cousin is more complicated. He was married with two daughters. His mom (my moms cousin) still thinks it wasn’t really him or makes other excuses for him. My cousin was one of the most charismatic people I’ve ever met and lived his life as the “nice guy” the stigma had been hard for him but I think he would do well to recognize that it was earned. He’s divorced and lost custody. Our understanding was that he never molestef his own kids but his wife has done well to advocate for keeping him away from them regardless.

I think your friend needs to own his separation from Scouts and his stigma from neighbors. If he’s really contrite he’s recognize that separation from other kids is a necessity. It’s too hard to determine if he’ll be a risk to a child. What he did was wrong and he’s still paying the price.

I don’t know how severe his crime is. I do think that porn can be addictive and clicking the wrong thing happens! I also think the people arrested have an excessive amount and I do think there are victims and the outrage is warranted. I don’t think we understand it well or how it develops in these “nice guys” but I feel like that’s the question of the ages for nearly everyone behind bars. How much of that is circumstance? Mental illness? Personal choice? Being born inherently bad? I don’t know. I personally thinks it’s ok to be wary of convicted criminals and that doesn’t translate to unkindness.

[niccig]

I don’t think it’s unkind to expect your kids to have zero contact with him. Child molestors are manipulative and children are susceptible to charismatic bad people. I am concerned with your MILs attitude. She should be worried about recidivism and any exposure her grandchildren might have. If it were me I’d spend time with BIL only with other adults (no kids) present and pretty much cut off all contact between him and my kids. If he lives at MILs house then your kids don’t go there any more. I feel like if he is truly remorseful for what he did he will not only understand your policy but will welcome it as part of his journey of repentance and I feel like your MIL should see it the same way. I can see this as being a difficult decision with your DHs family. I’m so sorry!

I agree with not having contact. MIL can come to your house to see the kids. You can take the kids there if he’s not there.

My dad cut off contact with his brother, and I didn’t see my uncle for over 15 years. My grandmother lived next door and we were not allowed to go see her when my uncle was visiting. My uncle was a drug addict and my grandmother would have my dad go find his brother in whatever drug house he was in when he went missing. My uncle owed people money and Dad was threatened to pay his brother’s debts or his family would be hurt. Dad got to a point where he put his immediate family’s safety over his mother/brother. I still had a relationship with my grandmother, but my uncle was not part of it.

It’s not easy to do, but I agree that your kids shouldn’t be around the uncle. You can’t watch all the time. IMO it’s not worth the risk to your kids to have him around to keep family peace with MIL. Is it unfair for MIL, yes but it’s a consequence of his crimes and needing to keep other kids safe. MIL can have separate relationships with your kids from her son, and you and DH can see the brother without the kids.

Same with the OP’s situation, it’s unfair for the son he can’t have his dad be part of Scouts, but it’s a consequence of the dad’s actions, and unfortunately the son has to deal with it too. The decision was made to keep other kids safe. The dad can do other activities with his son that doesn’t involve Scouts.

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[petesgirl]

OK. I’m doing a really bad job of expressing myself. This isn’t exactly what I want, but it will do.
Child porn is not a victimless crime.
I don’t believe everyone watches child porn will abuse a child, but I suspect that most people who do sexually abuse children will have viewed child porn. But I have no idea what that means for public policy or safety.
Of course the research in this area is paltry for many reasons, but you can’t even search for the research because google blocks the search term in any context, which is understandable.
It’s not like just the same 1000 people are downloading this stuff, so someone here is married to someone who has. Not justifing anything, just stating.

I found this article helpful years ago in understanding some of this, although it’s not a 1 to 1 match to the OP position. My next question would also be, when do you all plan on taking to your children about viewing this? How would you do it? It’s something we all need to address.

https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-y...w-e11ce4b88bdb

Ugh. I have like 3 books already on how to talk to kids about porn and I still don't know the best way. So far, with our 7 yr old, we have things like 'it's never ok to see a person naked in a book or a game or a show. If you see that, turn it off immediately and tell an adult."
And we have told him several times also that mom and dad are the only adults who should see him without clothes and we will only touch him if we are helping with hygiene. His pedestrian brings similar things up at every well-check.

Last year DS complained to the principal about a boy who was peeking under locked bathroom doors so I think some of it sticking.

[petesgirl]

I agree with not having contact. MIL can come to your house to see the kids. You can take the kids there if he’s not there.

My dad cut off contact with his brother, and I didn’t see my uncle for over 15 years. My grandmother lived next door and we were not allowed to go see her when my uncle was visiting. My uncle was a drug addict and my grandmother would have my dad go find his brother in whatever drug house he was in when he went missing. My uncle owed people money and Dad was threatened to pay his brother’s debts or his family would be hurt. Dad got to a point where he put his immediate family’s safety over his mother/brother.

It’s not easy to do, but I agree that your kids shouldn’t be around the uncle. You can’t watch all the time. IMO it’s not worth the risk to your kids to have him around to keep family peace with MIL. Is it unfair for MIL, yes but it’s a consequence of his crimes and needing to keep other kids safe.

Same with the OP’s situation, it’s unfair for the son he can’t have his dad be part of Scouts, but it’s a consequence of the dad’s actions, and unfortunately the son has to deal with it too. The decision was made to keep other kids safe. The dad can do other activities with his son that doesn’t involve Scouts.

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And that may well be what it comes down to.
But, between this BIL and my DH's oldest brother who gives me the absolute creeps just to see, I'm used to watching my kids like a hawk at family gatherings. Nobody holds them but DH and I and I don't even try to be part of the adult conversation, I just follow my kids around and don't let them out of my sight.

[niccig]

And that may well be what it comes down to.
But, between this BIL and my DH's oldest brother who gives me the absolute creeps just to see, I'm used to watching my kids like a hawk at family gatherings. Nobody holds them but DH and I and I don't even try to be part of the adult conversation, I just follow my kids around and don't let them out of my sight.

Oh no. You may want to not have the kids alone with MIL as creepy older brother could stop by and you wouldn’t know. MIL doesn’t sound like she’s aware of danger to the grandkids. She wants to believe her son couldn’t do what he did as it’s easier on her to be in denial. She can see the grandkids but with limits.


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[dogmom]

I actually am half way through the article you linked. Thanks for posting. I admit I’m feeling for that boy mentioned in the link and for his mom. How would I feel it my was my child going through the same thing? I cannot see that 16 year old boy as a monster, atleast at this point in his story. He is going through such a genuine struggle, and he is definitely not lacking empathy. He has the realization that he has something that isn’t normal and needs help. And what can I say about the incompetent therapist he sees.
But overall, this whole territory seems to be unexplored in terms of why someone feels this way, how and whether they can get help, whether it’s something they can change or curb or rid themselves of.


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This American Life also did a story on this, I suspect from the article. If you are interested it’s the episode “Tarred and Feathered” where you can directly hear from the boy and his mother. I think TAL sort of painted it more sympathetically, and in my opinion the article had a fuller picture. I this and the article I linked to from The New Yorker are good places to try to start getting below the surface.

I guess I’m a little immune to the “they all lie thing”. Yep, they do. I deal with some heavy duty addicts at work, and they often lie as if they were breathing, but I got to figure out a way to care for them when they have a medical issue. Even if you have no empathy for someone who has done horrible things, and I’m talking about people who are not sympathetic poster children for addiction, to not take appropriate care of them winds up being a burden on society. I guess I sort of use similar coping mechanism to think about child abusers and child abusers by proxy. (yes I know it’s an apple to oranges comparison.)

[JBaxter]

My thoughts on the man. I wouldn't want him around my children ( boys or girls I don't know his perversions) I would probably give him death glares at any function where my child was attending. He forfeited the right to be thought of as a decent human when he CHOSE to view children who were being abused. That is a perversion that is not forgivable for me. A NORMAL person does not view children in a sexual manner honestly I would never care if he is "cured" He may or may hot have ever physically touched a child but IN HIS MIND he did and I will never think differently. Those kids in the videos were someones children and I pray someone rescued them from that horrible situation. Its people like him that pushes that industry to continue people like him that create the need to create the videos.

[petesgirl]

Oh no. You may want to not have the kids alone with MIL as creepy older brother could stop by and you wouldn’t know. MIL doesn’t sound like she’s aware of danger to the grandkids. She wants to believe her son couldn’t do what he did as it’s easier on her to be in denial. She can see the grandkids but with limits.


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When it all unfolded DH and I had a serious conversation about limits. It contributed to my decision to quit my job because a lot of times when I was at work DH would take the kids to his parents house and they would hang out for a while. I needed to be certain that stopped.

[niccig]

When it all unfolded DH and I had a serious conversation about limits. It contributed to my decision to quit my job because a lot of times when I was at work DH would take the kids to his parents house and they would hang out for a while. I needed to be certain that stopped.

Eek, sounds like DH is in denial too.


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[petesgirl]

Eek, sounds like DH is in denial too.


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He isn't anymore. But, I do think the closer you are to the person it is harder to believe that they would actually do something that abhorrent.