Anyone dealing with a narcissistic parent?

[chlobo]

This person, Jonice Webb, has a book about childhood emotional neglect that I found helpful. Not all people who suffer from CEN have a narcissistic parent but having one, often produces CEN. She has lots of information on her website. Maybe some of it will resonate with you. https://www.drjonicewebb.com

I will say that for myself, distance and setting firm boundaries and saying "I've got to get of the phone." a lot is what seems most helpful.

I will say that I have often tried to "say my peace" with my mother in the hopes that she see some other side of the situation besides her own but she never does. It's never her fault, she is always the victim. So I have stopped trying to have any kind of productive conversation with her.

[niccig]

I’m so sorry, Nicci, that you’re going through this. Not sure if my mom was narcissistic as such, but a lot of what you’re experiencing sounds familiar — the manipulation, the silent treatment, the refusal to own her actions. The first time I stayed in a hotel rather than with my mom, she refused to see me at all. And that was a muted reaction, for her.

What helped me the most was designing my own boundaries – deciding what kind of behaviors I would tolerate from her and which ones I would not. I also wrote scripts in my mind for how I would deal with situations, and tried very hard to follow them. After that, it became a matter of enforcing my own boundaries. At that point, it didn’t really matter whether those boundaries were reasonable to my mom or anybody else, because they were my own and I figured I had as much right to enact them as she had to act badly.

I’m not putting this quite correctly. Basically, I came to the realization that nothing I ever did would change my mother’s behavior or make her into the kind of mother I wanted or needed. But that didn’t mean I was ever obligated to subject myself to her abuses. So if we were on the phone and she started complaining about how all of her children hated her, I would say something like “mom, I am not going to discuss this with you.” If she kept going, I would warn her “I am not going to discuss this with you. If you keep talking about it, I will hang up.” And if she kept going I would hang up. It was really hard, and I would be violently shaking when I put down that phone, but it was worth it.

I’ll be honest, building those boundaries did damage my relationship with my father. And that really really sucked. But there was a point at which I realize that he had his own choices to make, and he consistently put his desire not to argue with my mother over his desire to see his kids. If your father is ill, it is that much harder, and I am sorry.

I won’t have to worry about phone calls. I fully expect mum to hang up me when I call in a couple weeks for Father’s Day. She had a huge fight with my younger sister a couple years back and hung up when my sister called for New Year’s. I was there and told her she was out of line for deciding for dad he couldn’t speak to my sister.

Dad can’t do anything, he’s too ill and dependent on her. And he didn’t do anything before he was ill. Her behavior has escalated but it’s nothing new. My younger sister was at our high school for a meeting and spoke with her senior art teacher who described my mother who was also a teacher at our school as “intense and demanding”. Mum hasn’t taught with this woman in 25 years.

My 2 sisters won’t do anything. I don’t expect them to choose sides, but whereas I have called mum out over the years for her behavior, they’ll both stay silent, and may even cut me out too as it’ll anger her to stay in contact with me. I understand they still want a relationship with her, and you can only have one on her terms. But I know at some point, she’ll do the same to them. She already has to my younger sister, but my younger sister has decided to put up with mum’s behavior, I think she still wants a mother-daughter relationship and plans to move back there and will need to live with mum and dad at first.

I like the idea of developing scripts. I wasn’t prepared for how to react when she crossed a boundary placed by DS’s doctor - no discussion of his pain disorder, and she deliberately brought the topic up to him. When I called her on it, she flew into a rage, and I didn’t have a script prepared. I’m not proud I lost my temper, and said some really mean things (I am her daughter and know where to verbally attack, it’s something I’ve worked to change but it came out). I wish I could’ve cut things short and gotten DS out of there sooner. He’s really upset over everything.


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[niccig]

Reddit has a forum called Raised by Narcissists that may have some good resources for you through the subreddit (forum) itself or the sidebar of information: https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/

Here is their list of "helpful links": https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynar...i/helpfullinks

Thanks, I’ll look at these. I’ve danced around the issue calling my mum difficult or controlling, but I’m accepting it’s way more than that!


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[niccig]

I’m a member of the crappy “my mom is a narcissist club”. It sucks, but space and boundaries help a lot. I am limited contact with her. The book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend has helped. I can’t change her, but recognizing she is always miserable and that would be a miserable way to live, has helped me not go from 0 to 1000 with her so quickly

I have that book, I’ll look at it again. I’ve accepted for awhile that she’ll never change. I’ve never reframed it as a miserable way to live. That may help me too to not react so quickly. Thanks!


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[niccig]

This person, Jonice Webb, has a book about childhood emotional neglect that I found helpful. Not all people who suffer from CEN have a narcissistic parent but having one, often produces CEN. She has lots of information on her website. Maybe some of it will resonate with you. https://www.drjonicewebb.com

I will say that for myself, distance and setting firm boundaries and saying "I've got to get of the phone." a lot is what seems most helpful.

I will say that I have often tried to "say my peace" with my mother in the hopes that she see some other side of the situation besides her own but she never does. It's never her fault, she is always the victim. So I have stopped trying to have any kind of productive conversation with her.

A friend and I compare notes on our emotionally unavailable mothers! I didn’t realize until I had DS how messed up things were. I’ll look at the website.

I haven’t had a productive conversation in years. I stopped sharing or asking her opinion as she lectures you. I had serious issues whenDS was born and establishing I was his mum and not her. I have other people I talk to. I do think that’s partly why she’s so mad at me. Both my sisters are single again and in places with work/life where they call and ask her advice and she feels needed by them. My older sister calls everyday. I call to check in with them, update them on things and have DS talk to them. I let her know what’s going on, but she has no say in my life.


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[hellokitty]

I'm sorry that you're in this situation. I remember how stressful your annual visits would be to see her. I had a somewhat similar situation last year, my father and I have a similar relationship as you describe with your mom. We went to see them during spring break and my father started in on me, I stood up for myself and he started screaming at me, telling me I wasn't his daughter, telling me I was a horrible mother. My kids were in another room, but heard the entire thing. Then we saw them again for summer vacation, that had already been planned and they played a role in ruining that too. I have two brothers, one is the golden child, so he can't see clearly. The other one can see pretty clearly, although I am the family scapegoat, so I pretty much get ALL the hate, including when my parents get mad at my brothers, they will blame me, even if I had nothing to do with it. My mother, who I had always thought was an codepedent enabler has become increasingly more toxic in the past five years and things came to a head between us a few months ago when she withheld a legal document from me that I needed. By then, I had it and just decided I'm in my 40's, my parents suck, they make me miserable, my mother who I always thought was screwed up from being with my dad, is so enmeshed with him, she has lost herself. So, thinking that I could somehow try to have a relationship with her, while putting up with my dad'd toxicity just seemed completely crazy on my part. I went no contact. I've been no contact for about 3 months, they have done a lot of (expected) passive aggressive, toxic outreach. I think that I am just numb to it all. My kids are well aware that something is, "wrong" with their grandfather and I found out my son told a friend at summer camp about how my dad still yells at me. It's dysfunctional and my kids do not have a relationship with my parents anyway, bc crappy parents end up being crappy grandparents too. Am I bitter? Yes, but at the same time, our life is so busy right now I cannot take on the drama that my parents try to push onto my life, so I am opting out.

I know that our situations are different, as you still really want to have a relationship with your father, where I'm so irritated with my mother I doubt we could ever even think to have any sort of relationship unless my father is no longer there (his health is not great, so that is one reason she is so pissed off, bc he uses it to guill and try to manipulate and I am tired of it, even if he is elderly and sickly, it does not justify the constant abuse, my mother has tried to normalize it, which has made me even more mad at her. If your dad is open to it, I would use facetime as a way to try to KIT with him since he can't travel and you visiting them makes things so tense and uncomfortable. For sure your mom will make sure to make it miserable and I would't want to give her the opportunity to try to ruin things. As for books, I've actually found listening to youtube vlogs about narcissistic abuse to be the most helpful for me.

I hope that you figure out a way to set boundaries that works for you. I'm mad that I waited this long to go no contact and while I am upset that my mom got caught in the middle, in the end, she chose to side with my father (when he started screaming at me, she piled on and during summer vacation, she continued to make snide comments). Life is too short to let toxic people bring you down.

[niccig]

I'm sorry that you're in this situation. I remember how stressful your annual visits would be to see her. I had a somewhat similar situation last year, my father and I have a similar relationship as you describe with your mom. We went to see them during spring break and my father started in on me, I stood up for myself and he started screaming at me, telling me I wasn't his daughter, telling me I was a horrible mother. My kids were in another room, but heard the entire thing. Then we saw them again for summer vacation, that had already been planned and they played a role in ruining that too. I have two brothers, one is the golden child, so he can't see clearly. The other one can see pretty clearly, although I am the family scapegoat, so I pretty much get ALL the hate, including when my parents get mad at my brothers, they will blame me, even if I had nothing to do with it. My mother, who I had always thought was an codepedent enabler has become increasingly more toxic in the past five years and things came to a head between us a few months ago when she withheld a legal document from me that I needed. By then, I had it and just decided I'm in my 40's, my parents suck, they make me miserable, my mother who I always thought was screwed up from being with my dad, is so enmeshed with him, she has lost herself. So, thinking that I could somehow try to have a relationship with her, while putting up with my dad'd toxicity just seemed completely crazy on my part. I went no contact. I've been no contact for about 3 months, they have done a lot of (expected) passive aggressive, toxic outreach. I think that I am just numb to it all. My kids are well aware that something is, "wrong" with their grandfather and I found out my son told a friend at summer camp about how my dad still yells at me. It's dysfunctional and my kids do not have a relationship with my parents anyway, bc crappy parents end up being crappy grandparents too. Am I bitter? Yes, but at the same time, our life is so busy right now I cannot take on the drama that my parents try to push onto my life, so I am opting out.

I know that our situations are different, as you still really want to have a relationship with your father, where I'm so irritated with my mother I doubt we could ever even think to have any sort of relationship unless my father is no longer there (his health is not great, so that is one reason she is so pissed off, bc he uses it to guill and try to manipulate and I am tired of it, even if he is elderly and sickly, it does not justify the constant abuse, my mother has tried to normalize it, which has made me even more mad at her. If your dad is open to it, I would use facetime as a way to try to KIT with him since he can't travel and you visiting them makes things so tense and uncomfortable. For sure your mom will make sure to make it miserable and I would't want to give her the opportunity to try to ruin things. As for books, I've actually found listening to youtube vlogs about narcissistic abuse to be the most helpful for me.

I hope that you figure out a way to set boundaries that works for you. I'm mad that I waited this long to go no contact and while I am upset that my mom got caught in the middle, in the end, she chose to side with my father (when he started screaming at me, she piled on and during summer vacation, she continued to make snide comments). Life is too short to let toxic people bring you down.

Hello Kitty, I’m so sorry you experienced that. My experience was similar telling me how I’m an awful daughter and mother. It’s projection, they see how they didn’t parent! I didn’t start to deal with mother until I had DS and started to figure out how I wanted to parent. I had spent my childhood and early 20’s hating my Dad for domestic violence and trauma he caused. My parents divorced when I was 13 and got back together when I was 15. I didn’t have a relationship with him until mid 20s, he started seeing a psychologist and he and I made our peace. He doesn’t use a computer or a cell phone. My mum even gets the mail. He will sometimes answer home phone if mum isn’t home but I have to call multiple times. I usually have to call mum’s cell to talk to him. She can completely control who he has contact with. I expect her to prevent access. It’s what she accuses me of, controlling access to DS, but he’s a minor and dad’s an adult.

I’ll listen to some podcasts, read some books and look st other resources suggested, but I think I need some time, it’s still too raw. I start back at work next week, DS is back to school, so being busy will help too


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[doberbrat]

bc crappy parents end up being crappy grandparents too.

I'm sorry too.

At least in my case, this isnt true - my mom is a decent grandparent. And of course, HER grandkids are the best there are. Helps that she mostly talks on the phone to the girls where it isnt as noticable that she's talking about herself rather than listening to them. Sometimes, they talk at eachother but b/c its on the phone, it isnt as bad. Phone contact for kids to grandparent only might be a way to go. I keep an ear our b/c the kids speak on speakerphone and cut things off if it gets too crazy.

[anonomom]

I want to point out (gently) that your mother isn’t controlling your access to your dad — it looks like he has decided he doesn’t want to be reachable except through her. I presume that he is capable of using a computer or cell phone (by that I mean he has the physical ability, even if he has refused to learn), or that he can pick up the phone when it rings (or even dial it himself), but for whatever reason, he has decided he’d rather not.

His unreachability may have nothing at all to do with you, but from the way you’ve worded things, it does seem like it’s a choice he has made. I’m not saying this to be mean, but because for me it was helpful to look critically at my dad’s role in our family dynamic. It was easier once I realized that my dad wasn’t some passive/helpless passenger on my mom’s crazy train, but rather the co-conductor. At the very least, it took one source of resentment against my mom (the fiction that if it weren’t for her, i’d be closer to my dad) out of the equation.

[niccig]

I want to point out (gently) that your mother isn’t controlling your access to your dad — it looks like he has decided he doesn’t want to be reachable except through her. I presume that he is capable of using a computer or cell phone (by that I mean he has the physical ability, even if he has refused to learn), or that he can pick up the phone when it rings (or even dial it himself), but for whatever reason, he has decided he’d rather not.

His unreachability may have nothing at all to do with you, but from the way you’ve worded things, it does seem like it’s a choice he has made. I’m not saying this to be mean, but because for me it was helpful to look critically at my dad’s role in our family dynamic. It was easier once I realized that my dad wasn’t some passive/helpless passenger on my mom’s crazy train, but rather the co-conductor. At the very least, it took one source of resentment against my mom (the fiction that if it weren’t for her, i’d be closer to my dad) out of the equation.

He’s never used a computer and we use Skype or what’s app to call because it’s an international phone call. Dad no longer has a cell phone. There is a house phone but he wouldn’t know my number. He has cognitive impairments from Parkinson’s Disease. Initially when I moved overseas he wasn’t ill, and you’re right he didn’t reach out independently, he let mum take care of contact back then. He could’ve learned to contact me, he didn’t and now he would have difficulty due to his cognitive impairments. He could also ask her to call me. I doubt he will though, so you’re right, he does have options for contact if he wishes.


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