Looping in The Principal for Teacher Issues

[anonomom]

This is partly an update on my post a few weeks ago, partly a rant and partly a request for advice. I wrote a few weeks ago that DS's teachers (3rd grade) had sought a meeting to talk about his work habits, and that they were sending feedback home on his work that I thought was unhelpful/unnecessarily critical. I took y'alls advice to ask for an evaluation of DS for learning delays/difficulties, and that ball is now rolling. But in the meantime, things are getting worse at school for DS, totally separate from whether or not he has special needs of any kind. I think I need to loop the principal in and could use some advice as to how.

Basically, these teachers have extremely high standards (which isn't generally a bad thing), but also seem to be troubled by normal kid behavior. To provide just one example, I have received three emails in the last week complaining that my kid pees too often, and that's in addition to the admonishments DS is receiving about it at school. The first time, the teacher mentioned that for two days in a row, he had used the bathroom twice over the course of two hours and wondered if it might be a good idea to restrict his access to water before her class. I told her no, but that she could of course use her judgment and ask DS to wait for an appropriate time. That day, she also pulled DS aside and told him he she would be calling me about how much he pees, and she made DS leave her classroom, go to his other teacher's classroom, ask that teacher for permission to use the bathroom, then come back to her classroom to get the bathroom pass before he was allowed actually to pee.

I spoke to her in person after that, and she assured me that she thinks he sincerely needs to go, but she doesn't like DS disrupting her class to ask to use the bathroom. I asked about her making DS go to the other teacher's class and she was clearly sheepish about it, claiming she just wanted DS to double-check with the other teacher to verify that he'd used the bathroom already that day. She also noted that his needing to pee is a hardship on the other kids, because they're required to use the bathroom in pairs, allegedly as per school policy.

The second email was sent apparently within moments of him asking to use the restroom and said basically "I just want to let you know your son is using the bathroom right now (at 10:30 am), even though he already went at 9:50." She said she wasn't emailing to be mean, but because she "just wanted to let us know the frequency." I didn't respond to that email (what could I possibly say?), but saw the teacher at school the next day and she told me he hadn't used the bathroom at all in her class that day.

Then today, DS came home and said "my teacher thinks I need to go to the doctor because I pee too much. She sent you an email about it." I checked, and sure enough, there was an email from his other teacher, listing the exact times that he used the bathroom today (4x over the course of the 7.5 hours he spent at school) and reminding me that it is disruptive when he asks to use the bathroom. Interestingly, the email did NOT mention DS needing medical care even though she mentioned it to DS.

The bathroom issue is the worst of what we're seeing with these teachers, but there are other issues, too. For example, when I met with them, we agreed that I would do extra handwriting practice with DS at home every night in lieu of filling out his reading log (he still reads every night and does all of his other homework). That lasted exactly one week, then the teacher told DS he needed to bring in the handwriting book (that I purchased) every day to show it to whichever classmate she has put in charge of checking in homework that day. Otherwise, she said, the other kids would be confused as to why DS isn't getting punished for not doing his reading log. Both teachers were also supposed to help him with organization, but as far as I can tell, they do no work on it at school -- DS comes home with papers sticking every which way out of his binder, and I'm the one that goes through and makes sure everything gets into the right place (but, of course, I still get notes home about his lack of organization). And the endless negative feedback on his school and home work has continued unabated (I kid you not -- an assignment on which DS had followed directions to the letter, with a single wrong answer, was returned with a bright yellow "Quality alert!" tag attached and a demand that I sign it and he fix it).

I haven't replied to the latest bathroom email yet, but when I do I would like to cc the principal, and possibly ask him to sit in on the parent-teacher conference we have scheduled for next week. Is this appropriate at this point? I really have been trying to take the tack that one teacher-kid misfit isn't the end of the world and that DS will be fine if this year isn't great. But IMO, we're moving past "poor fit" into "singling out and harassing." The goal of getting the principal involved would be to let him know what's going on, and to as for his help in getting this to stop, or at the least, to help me arrive at a workable solution to the issues the teachers are having with DS.

Some pertinent info: DS doesn't have any health problems, and we do not see an increase in his bathroom use (or his intake of liquids) at home. He brings a 20-oz bottle of water to school every day and it usually comes home partially full, so he's not drinking excessively (he cannot refill it at school, so I know he's not getting much additional water). By his teachers' own admission, he doesn't ask to leave class to use the bathroom every day. He is (again, by their own admission) respectful, kind, obedient and non-disruptive at school, he tries hard to please and the teachers don't think he's just asking to go to the bathroom to get out of class. The worst that they can say about him is that he's immature, disorganized, and behind in his spelling and handwriting skills (all of these things are true). When I speak to the teachers in person, they're all nice and reasonable, and I leave the meeting thinking everyone is on the same page, but then within days the same issues are cropping up again. Both have been teaching 3rd grade for several years and have good reputations at school, for whatever that's worth, but I have heard from other parents whose children have struggled to live up to the teachers' sky-high expectations.

[ett]

Have you reached out to the guidance counselor? I think that would be more appropriate at this point than the principal.

[bisous]

Hmm. The way they set up a plan and then turn around and change everything is very frustrating. It may very well be time to include the principal. Let me think about that a bit more... What really stuck out me was the bathroom thing...

Do you not think the bathroom thing is excessive though? I can see where they might be concerned about a medical condition. I’ve never know a healthy child to go that frequently (it’s a sign of diabetes unfortunately so I HAVE seen it—just not in a healthy child!) and I honestly think any teacher would feel frustrated with such frequent interruptions.

I think my fix there would be to again determine there is no health indication and then barring that, institute strategic water drinking so that it coincides with lunch and recess.

[anonomom]

I'm sure it is very annoying, I get that and have some empathy for their situation. But I have now had three emails and two in-person discussions with the teachers on this topic, in addition to their twice shaming/threatening him for needing to go to the bathroom. That's not showing concern for his health, that's inappropriately venting annoyance with a typical part of dealing with kids, especially since it comes hand-in-hand with multiple other questionable reactions to DS's general existence as a person.

DS doesn't have a health problem. To put it bluntly (and as I explained to his teacher), he comes by this trait honestly -- it was handed down by DH, whose time between bathroom trips can frequently be measured in minutes. And I've spent enough time proctoring EOGs (specifically for the third grade) and chaperoning school activities to know that while DS may be on the "more frequent" side of the spectrum, his bathroom usage isn't outside the range of normal. Over the course of one particular 2-hour school event, I recall more than a few kids who drank multiple bottles of water and made 3 or more bathroom trips.

[sariana]

I am a teacher. I think it is totally appropriate to request the principal's involvement at this point.

I don't blame your son for going to the bathroom so often. I would look for any excuse to get away from that teacher, too.

[bisous]

I'm sure it is very annoying, I get that and have some empathy for their situation. But I have now had three emails and two in-person discussions with the teachers on this topic, in addition to their twice shaming/threatening him for needing to go to the bathroom. That's not showing concern for his health, that's inappropriately venting annoyance with a typical part of dealing with kids, especially since it comes hand-in-hand with multiple other questionable reactions to DS's general existence as a person.

DS doesn't have a health problem. To put it bluntly (and as I explained to his teacher), he comes by this trait honestly -- it was handed down by DH, whose time between bathroom trips can frequently be measured in minutes. And I've spent enough time proctoring EOGs (specifically for the third grade) and chaperoning school activities to know that while DS may be on the "more frequent" side of the spectrum, his bathroom usage isn't outside the range of normal. Over the course of one particular 2-hour school event, I recall more than a few kids who drank multiple bottles of water and made 3 or more bathroom trips.

I’m sure their handling leaves much to be desired and I have “been there” during the battle of wills that takes place when a teacher just decides not to be helpful to a child and it’s beyond frustrating. I guess I could sort of see why an average teacher might want to document the frequent bathroom trips but add that to the other problems you’re experiencing and I’m sure your read on this is accurate.

That said, i would caution you against using this issue with the principal because I feel like it’s too easy to be sympathetic with the teachers. Honestly I still think that kind of frequency is outside the parameters of normal bathroom visits, even if he isn’t unhealthy. Not that there’s anything wrong with him or that he should be subject to mean spirited teaching practices! That still sucks. Just stick with the most black and white instances.

I would stick with other issues where the teachers are more clearly out of line—like reneging on the plans you created together. I feel like by focusing on a few key changes that are easily implementable and that would make a difference to your DS, you have a chance at creating the most improvement and getting administrative support.

I’m glad to hear you’re pursuing the testing. If you get to the point that you can institute a 504 maybe you can codify that he can use the bathroom without needing any passes. (I bet the doctor can explain that although it’s frequent, it’s needed and healthy.) Having a 504 gives you both a lot more protections.

In sum, I’d pick a few key things you’d like to see and try to get support for those from the teachers and possibly the admins if needed!

[PunkyBoo]

I just want to say that we've had teachers ask about our DS2's frequency using the restroom at school too. I believe it was a combination of anxiety (teachers already labeled him as a problem), needing a break (DS2 has ADHD and sometimes just needs to "escape" for a few minutes, or is bored/ uninterested in what is going on), and discovering that using the bathroom was a control thing- some kids just need to have control over certain situations. (Once the teachers told him he could go, quietly without disturbing our disrupting anyone, it tapered off). All of this could be contributing to what is going on with your son.
I would start with the counselor/ school psychologist before the principal.

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[lurksalot]

I'm a school administrator and I would want you to include me in your conference. I do think he may be going more frequently than others, especially when I imagine he has recess and lunch available to also use the restroom, however, the way his teacher is handling this raises some concerns for me.

It is never appropriate to tell a 3rd-grade student that you think there is something medically wrong with them, totally not age-appropriate, frankly, I don't think it is ever appropriate. Also, sending him to the other teacher is punitive and humiliating. There is no reason why he can't use a silent signal to let the teacher know he needs to use the restroom. 3rd grade is plenty old enough to use the restroom independently. I am also not a fan of having his peers check homework, for exactly this reason. How a student performs in class is private. It isn't any of their business that he is completing an alternative assignment. The "quality alert!" comment is not reasonable for missing one question on a homework assignment. I could go on....I would not be comfortable knowing any of my students were having these experiences at school. I am so sad for your son.

[lurksalot]

Also, I would not suggest going to a counselor or school psychologist. Most of the concerns that you have shared are about the teaching practices and teacher behavior. This is a personnel issue and not appropriate to discuss with anyone else at the school except for the admin.

[KpbS]

We encountered very similar issues one year in elementary. It was absolutely unbearable and the teacher continued to single out my kid for all sorts of “offenses” like reading when there was downtime, going to the bathroom too frequently, etc. DC developed significant anxiety and a great dislike of school. We pulled him to homeschool instead because life is too short for all of this mistreatment and b.s.