Tell it to me straight about algebra

[elbert]

Looking for any thoughts on this -

DD is finishing up 7th grade, bright and high-achieving; we expect that she will be looking to go to a selective college.

She’s recommended for algebra in 8th grade (based on A+ averages in math over the trimesters and standardized test performance). My concern is that she’s really not great at thinking mathematically....and says she “doesn’t like math” (which is hard for me, since I was a math nerd).

I assume we basically need to do algebra in 8th grade to keep her on the selective college pathway? I definitely don’t see her doubling up on math at any point in high school. Do kids “need” to get to calculus in high school in order to be highly competitive for the types of colleges she’s considering? Basically, are we ultimately doing her a disservice if we opt for her to do pre-algebra next year?

I hate that this is even an issue of concern, but I keep hearing that in the 30 years since I applied to colleges, it’s a whole different ball game...


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[JBaxter]

My 3 older boys all took algebra 1 in either 7th or 8th grade. I would say yes it is very advisable to have her take it in 8th. Mine took geometry in 9th if I remember correctly. Ds3 attends a very high achieving gifted high school. He did algebra 1 honors in 8 geometry as a summer class algebra 2 honors 9th and pre calc honors in 10th. He has his sights set on med school currently the schools he’s looking at it would be important

[SnuggleBuggles]

That's a lot of pressure to be planning everything out in shooting for a selective college way back in 7th grade! So much can change and those schools have such weird algorithms for acceptance that it wouldn't be something I'd be pushing for (if it comes at the expense of enjoying school, taking classes she enjoys, finding her niche, being involved...). I would just encourage her to do her best and let things play out as opposed to building a resume that may not even work, kwim? Ok, off my soapbox! I would have her do algebra though. Algebra, to me, was more fun than math. She might really enjoy it. What would the trajectories be with or without doing algebra in 8th grade? To be honest, she would be behind the game at our school even with algebra in 8th unless she double upped. For us it goes 7- algebra, 8- geometry, 9- trig, 10- algebra 2, 11- AP calc AB, 12- AP calc BC or stats. Plenty of kids though just finish at AP calc. Anticipated college major will matter too- if she doesn't need high level math then it might just not matter.

[nfceagles]

Algebra in 8th grade is pretty standard to the best of my knowledge. Even my kids’ schools that don’t try to fast track many kids put most 8th graders in Algebra I. We were told that about 2/3s of students do that and 1/3 that struggle with math more take a lower course in 7th grade and pre-algebra in 8th.


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[KpbS]

I've found my kids are following the path DH and I went down where we took Algebra in 8th but it didn't fully click (ie it was a struggle) until 9th. We both retook in 9th and did fine. We are not mathy people, we are lang arts/history with some science folks. That said, an A+ in PreAl would indicate readiness to me. How resistant is she?

I wouldn't worry about college--admission or performance. She'll do great regardless of which math she takes. Also the world of college selection and admission is changing radically in the coming years. You can't plan/predict at this point. Just have her do her best and continue to enjoy school.

[elbert]

That's a lot of pressure to be planning everything out in shooting for a selective college way back in 7th grade! So much can change and those schools have such weird algorithms for acceptance that it wouldn't be something I'd be pushing for (if it comes at the expense of enjoying school, taking classes she enjoys, finding her niche, being involved...). I would just encourage her to do her best and let things play out as opposed to building a resume that may not even work, kwim? Ok, off my soapbox! I would have her do algebra though. Algebra, to me, was more fun than math. She might really enjoy it. What would the trajectories be with or without doing algebra in 8th grade? To be honest, she would be behind the game at our school even with algebra in 8th unless she double upped. For us it goes 7- algebra, 8- geometry, 9- trig, 10- algebra 2, 11- AP calc AB, 12- AP calc BC or stats. Plenty of kids though just finish at AP calc. Anticipated college major will matter too- if she doesn't need high level math then it might just not matter.

Thanks for this. Rereading what I wrote, it does sound like we’re pressuring. I was just trying to paint the picture that we’re in a district where college is the norm and it’s her/our/the community’s expected pathway that the kids closer to the “top” of the class will likely end up at higher tier schools - almost as if that’s the path of least resistance and doing something different would break that mold (which is certainly okay, but I don’t want to be the one to go against the school recommendations and thereby close the door, if that is what I would be doing).

And, you’re right - maybe she will like it more once it gets to algebra? I hadn’t even considered that possibility, but I do need to keep my mind open.

Without algebra in 8th grade, they do it in 9th and then finish with pre-Calc unless they double up. From what I’ve heard, only about 2-3% (about 8-10 per year) of the kids in the district end with AP Calc BC senior year.


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[elbert]

Thanks to all of the quick replies. Super helpful to hear.


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[Philly Mom]

I would have her do Algebra because from personal experience math is better when you are with high achieving students. Better teachers are often allocated to those kids as well.

[AnnieW625]

Dh has a degree in mechanical engineering and didn’t take calculus until his freshman year in college. He had to take so much math that had he taken two or three more classes he would’ve had a double major. He didn’t declare a minor, but it is essentially math. Maybe it was just the calculus teacher at our high school but most of my friends who took calculus as a senior in high school also took it their freshman year in college and understood it better the second time they took it.

If it becomes an issue in the future I would tell her she needs to take the required amount of math to be admitted to your state’s university system unless she has her sights set on a math or science centric university that may require calculus before you are admitted as a freshman. California only requires three years of math in high school for admittance.

Dd1 has taken algebra and has had straight As in it as an 8th grader but if she honestly didn’t get As or feel like she fully understood it then I wouldn’t have an issue with her repeating algebra in 9th grade. If she doesn’t want to I won’t require her to calculus in high school. Unless something has changed it may not be a requirement to graduate from college either unless your major requires it. As an example it is required at a UC school, but not required at a CSU.

FWIW: I graduated from high school only going as high as algebra 2 as I didn’t take algebra until 10th grade because I just didn’t get it. I started it in 9th grade, but pulled myself out of it because I wasn’t getting it. Most people took it in 9th grade and it they took four years of math in high school took trigonometry as a senior (this is what DH did). I took college math in college as required to graduate and it was a mix of algebra 2 and trigonometry. I finally understood algebra in college and I was 20 when I took the class. I got a C+, which was my highest math grade when taking a math class on the first try (I went to summer school for algebra and geometry) since the 9th grade and ended up with Bs or Cs.


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[SnuggleBuggles]

I would have her do Algebra because from personal experience math is better when you are with high achieving students. Better teachers are often allocated to those kids as well.

That's a really good point and definitely matches our experience too.