Concerns about our scouting troop, planning ankle surgery & stuff, please weigh in...

[gatorsmom]

So this weekend my 12yo daughter and I went hiking with her new scouting troop (Scouts BSA). Our troop leaders have lead a boys’ troup for 2 years and then started this all-girls Troup. We have 6 girls and the parents are very active. One of the parents is an Eagle Scout who has hiked all over the world and one mom is an Army Doctor. The troup has camped out twice before and this weekend the troop hiked 5 miles with our packs and then camped overnight one night. We watched our troop leader pull his supplies out of his backpack and we were given a list of suggested supplies to prepare for this trip. My Dh and oldest sons are experienced backpackers and said they thought my lack was a little heavy for me but since we were on an easy hike and only 5 miles they thought I’d be fine. The trail our group picked turned out to be rock climbing at the end and we didn’t know that. So we were already exhausted and then had to climb down rock for over an hour with all our packs (Ice Age Trail at Devil’s Lake, Merrimac, Wisconsin). It was treacherous. Hundreds of feet of granite rocks to climb down. We should never have taken the girls down it. I wasn’t part of the decision-making group so I don’t know if they knew how hard it would be.

Well, about halfway down, I twisted and broke my ankle. And THANK GOD FOR THE ARMY DOCTOR MOM, she was right in front of me. She took amazing care of me. Also, 2 Eagle Scouts cake by at the same time and had a ton of supplies. Then they carried me down that dangerous rock cliff. I don’t know how we all didn’t fall off. And then the paramedics took over and got me down the rest of the way. I thanked everyone profusely and got names and contact info. I’d like to send them hundreds of dollars and cakes and flowers but that might be too much. Any suggestions what I can do to show my gratitude?

So the emergency room xrays showed 2 fractures of the distal fibula. They splinted me and said I need surgery this week to repair it. Anything I need to know about this? What to expect? How best to care for it? What questions to ask the doc? Do I see a podiatrist or orthopedic surgeon?

Finally, thoughts about the scouting troop. From when we started our descent on that rock hill, our troop master followed the group but got so far ahead I never saw him again. Some of the parents said he was up ahead with some if the girls who had lighter packs. But we had to phone him from the path to ask him to call an ambulance. Plus, their was a crowd of people there. It was packed with people taking this hiking path. There was very little room to maneuver around other people. I was surprised and annoyed that our leader didn’t keep us together better. After I broke my ankle, I didn’t see my dd again until I was on the stretcher at the bottom. She found the other girls and the troop leader to tell him what happened. Otherwise, I’d probably still be on that trail. Isn’t the motto of the Boy Scouts, “Be Prepared”? Because he wasn’t. He called me a couple of times in the hospital to find out what to do with my dd (she stayed with the doctor mom and camped). But apparently around the campfire that night he was saying, “Well, Lisa’s a tough old gal, she’ll be fine.” They drove my car back yesterday and and brought dd home and were chatting happily with Dh who told them, “Lisa is absolutely not fine. And I can’t believe you chose that trail to hike for the girls’ first time. I have gone there with another group before but we had a guide and no backpacks. I would never have chosen that trail for this Troup.” Per Dh, the doctor mom was not so flippant about my condition and was genuinely concerned. I would pull dd from this group due to their lack of planning abilities and poor judgement, but dd lives her troup and wants to be an Eagle Scout. How would you go forward with this one? I now realize I should have researched the trail and area myself and not trusted these yo-yos to know what was best. My bad.

all thoughts are welcome! Sorry if this is jumbled but I’m in pain meds.

[amyx4]

I cannot answer all of your questions. However, I do know that in our (Boy) Troop, their packs get weighed at the meeting before the hike. The goal weight is 20% of their body weight. If you don't bring your pack to the mtg then you cannot hike.

Also, our council still has covid restrictions. I *think* Scout activities are still strongly suggested to take place on our council's Scout properties. This helps with less people per trail and contract tracing because Troops need to sign-in at the property.

When the Troop hikes with both older experienced boys and a number new younger Scouts, they are broken up into two groups. Each group is assigned to a certain number of adults. They stay in that group for the duration of the hike.

I'm sorry that you're injured.

Final thought....which I guess you probably already know.....Scouting really should be "Scout Led" which means that mostly the Scouts come up with ideas for activities. I doubt this hike was chosen by the girls.....

[o_mom]

A few thoughts in random order.

What you can do to thank the Army Doctor mom and Eagle Scouts - nominate them for the Meritorious Action Award: https://www.scouting.org/awards/awar...orious-action/

The Scoutmaster - yes, there probably should have been more planning and I would work with the district/council professional staff to review the planning and preparation, make sure they are properly trained and have a "lessons learned" session. I would also ask that the next outing like this (not just a regular campout in a campground) be reviewed ahead of time by the district/council staff or someone that they designate that has a lot of experience with this. There should be a lot of preparation and reviewing "what if?" scenarios.

Pack weight - 20% is a good rule of thumb, and we actually weigh boys and packs.

Make sure that they have filed an incident report with the council (required!) and you can get reimbursed for any medical expenses not covered by your insurance.

Lastly - the remarks around the campfire may have been an effort to not worry/panic the kids that were there. I know that there have been a couple of times where I had some serious concerns on an outing that we as leaders were discussing (severe weather, lost in woods situation), but we did not share the seriousness of the concerns with the kids rather we talked through what they needed to be prepared (sleeping in clothes with shoes at the ready, putting the "emergency bailout plan" into action).

ETA: Feel free to PM me if you would like to discuss further. I have been involved in Scout BSA level for the last 5-6 years.

[Liziz]

How scary! I'm so sorry to hear you're hurt and thankful there were so many great people around you to help.

Ankle surgery -- absolutely, definitely see an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankles, and not a general ortho or a podiatrist. The difference in training and experience is huge.

Thank yous -- heartfelt thank you notes really go a long way, so definitely include those. I love the nomination suggestion someone listed above, too. I'd probably also send everyone either some fancy decorated cookies, fancy cupcakes, or a nice bouquet of flowers. Nothing too elaborate (other than effusive thank you's!) but something generous to show your appreciation.

Scout Troop - it's a new troop, there's a lot of reasons this hike might not have gone as planned. I wouldn't pull your DD yet. I would wait until you're feeling better from the ankle break (off pain meds, out of pain), and then have a discussion with the troop leaders about your concerns. I'd be prepared to start by listening and gauging (perhaps they've realized they need to make some changes, too), but also prepared with suggestions for future hikes --things like weighing the packs, reviewing trails, etc. If your DH is willing, maybe he can volunteer to help with guidelines/checking routes, etc. as it sounds like he has experience. If the troop leader is open to making improvements, etc. that's great. If he's totally defensive/feels like everything was fine, then I'd be more concerned. Either way, at this point I think it's a good time to monitor and suggest changes as needed, not time to just pull DD out. I too wouldn't worry too much about the comments around the campfire that night, as it very much could have been aimed at keeping the kids (esp knowing your DD was still there) from worrying too much.

I'll be sending you lots of P&PT for healing and a successful surgery!

[bisous]

That sounds really painful. I'm so sorry.

I will just say that it sounds like a fun trip but yes, it sounds very dangerous and not well planned. Maybe this will be a cautionary tale for them? At the very least it will lead you as a parent to ask a lot more questions and that could help prevent this in the future I think! Are you on the scout committee? I'm not a scout expert but I'm on the committee and I think all parents are invited to join--even if they don't hold a specific position. This would allow you to have input on the activities.

As a PP said, the events really should be scout-led. I know in a new troop this is a different kind of paradigm.

I love the idea about the nomination that o mom mentioned. I think one thing that motivates people that like to participate in scouting is recognition so that might go far.

I hope you feel better! It sounds like a scary activity, but real outdoor adventures can be so fun and it sounds like your troop is finding the exciting but needs to rein it in a bit. I'm glad girls have the opportunity to do these kinds of things now.

[georgiegirl]

I don’t know anything about scouts, but that’s awful you broke your ankle. And it sounds like that hike wasn’t appropriate and that the leader should have been more dialed into what was going on.


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[NCGrandma]

How scary! I'm so sorry to hear you're hurt and thankful there were so many great people around you to help.

Ankle surgery -- absolutely, definitely see an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankles, and not a general ortho or a podiatrist. The difference in training and experience is huge.

I'll be sending you lots of P&PT for healing and a successful surgery!

I totally agree about seeing an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankle. When I fell and broke several bones in my wrist a few years ago, I had an excellent hand surgeon. (The ortho department at our academic medical center is very specialized and fortunately has one or more surgeons for every joint in the body!) I hadn’t realized that, in addition to the surgery and the immediate post-op period, I would be seeing her regularly for several months to monitor the progress of the healing and PT. In addition to being technically good, she was an excellent communicator and very clearly told me what to expect at each step.

For my preop and follow up visits, I took a friend with me who could take notes and occasionally ask clarifying questions. This was invaluable even after the initial pain meds foggy head stage.

Several friends at my CCRC have had ankle or foot fractures. During the non-weight-bearing period, they were given a special walker that let them rest their knee on it — I’m sure there’s a name for it but no idea what. This let them get around surprisingly well.

Hope your surgery and rehab go well.


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[LD92599]

Sorry that happened to you! Last year our troop went on a hike to a local mountain. As we went higher and higher, a few of the moms stopped and decided we weren't going any further and our leader did indicate he didn't realize it was THAT hilly of a terrain...to the point where some of us were almost crawling up the dirt mountain and of course sliding backwards. I was more than happy to turn around and go back down w/ my DS (who has no tolerance for any sort of strenuous activity!) and another mom. Her kid went along w/ the leader. Never again!

Hope you're feeling better and on your feet quickly.

[pharmjenn]

I totally agree about seeing an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankle. When I fell and broke several bones in my wrist a few years ago, I had an excellent hand surgeon. (The ortho department at our academic medical center is very specialized and fortunately has one or more surgeons for every joint in the body!) I hadn’t realized that, in addition to the surgery and the immediate post-op period, I would be seeing her regularly for several months to monitor the progress of the healing and PT. In addition to being technically good, she was an excellent communicator and very clearly told me what to expect at each step.

For my preop and follow up visits, I took a friend with me who could take notes and occasionally ask clarifying questions. This was invaluable even after the initial pain meds foggy head stage.

Several friends at my CCRC have had ankle or foot fractures. During the non-weight-bearing period, they were given a special walker that let them rest their knee on it — I’m sure there’s a name for it but no idea what. This let them get around surprisingly well.

Hope your surgery and rehab go well.


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A knee scooter is the way to go. They can be purchased on Amazon for about $100. Add in the basket on the front, or plan to wear a backpack to carry things around.

My DH broke his ankle 5 years ago and went to the podiatrist. She did surgery. He did all the correct recovery, and on the day he was to be cleared they did a final xray and found he had dislocated the ankle and broke the repair she had done. She wanted to do surgery in 2 days, but we spent 2 weeks getting 4 new opinions (only 2 from actual foot/ankle orthopedic surgeons) and ended up with a fused ankle (which is not the surgery the podiatrist planned)
So just a cautionary tale of finding the right doctor! His case was complicated by other medical conditions that actually led to the second fracture/dislocation, and I don't know if having started with Ortho his outcome wouldn't have changed.

We still go to this podiatrist when needed, and now have relationships with both local ortho groups so we were set when DS broke his wrist.

[mom2binsd]

Omg!!!

I can't believe he took you all on that hike!

Definitely see an orthopedic surgeon and expect months of physical therapy most likely.

As for the campfire talk, I'm sure they meant to make the girls feel ok, but I'm offended he referred to you as a tough old gal!



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