Concerns about our scouting troop, planning ankle surgery & stuff, please weigh in...

[gatorsmom]

I would be so angry if that happened to me, I'm sorry you were hurt! I can't imagine having to be carried down the trail.

The Scout leader doesn't sound like a very good leader. He should absolutely be keeping track of everyone and providing support instead of being far ahead down the trail.

My family and my brother's family recently camped at Devil's Lake and did one hike. We did the East Bluff/Ice Age Trail and East Bluff Woods Trail loop https://www.devilslakewisconsin.com/...-descriptions/ We came down on the Ice Age Trail side, not the woods side.

I'm no Scout leader and most of my walks involve walking around Mpls city lakes with a stop for ice cream, but I thought the Ice Age Trail descent was ok. It was a very busy trail and there were a number of younger kids we saw on our way. I also saw one lady in high heels(!) and another woman with a small dog in a dog stroller. There was a pretty significant rain the day we went too. We had my SIL with a 6 month old in a front carry Baby Bjorn, two 11 year olds, a 14yo, 15yo and three more adults.

I will say the trails were not marked well at all, with no indication of how much farther it was to scenic points, and the one directional sign we saw was confusing. I checked my Fitbit stats for the day we were there and saw I walked over 7 miles and 72 flights of stairs(equivalent), so that doesn't really seem like the "medium effort" trail that's indicated on the website I linked. I wonder if it's possible the leader took the wrong trail? The trails we went on seemed appropriate for preteens. Some of the pictures for other trails look super intense and honestly pretty scary.

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I reviewed the map yesterday and the day before because I also found out the website you linked to today. The website photos of the Ice Age Trail didn’t resemble our trail. Based on where I parked our car and the initial hike (Roznos Meadow hike to East Bluff), I couldn’t figure out why we took the Ice Age trail to get to our scheduled campsite. I asked dd this morning, who is the Patrol Leader and she said we actually took Balanced Rock trail which would bring us around to our campsite. This makes much more sense based on the views we had from the trail and the photos on the website.

I’m pretty angry about the whole thing. On the Rosznos meadow trail we were all tired. The leaders kept saying, “up ahead it will be much easier because it’s downhill.” If they knew we were tired, how could they bring us down that trail? They knew were already struggling with our packs. Our balance was definitely thrown off by those packs. And it was our first hike. The troop leaders made several very bad calls that day.

[o_mom]

I reviewed the map yesterday and the day before because I also found out the website you linked to today. The website photos of the Ice Age Trail didn’t resemble our trail. Based on where I parked our car and the initial hike (Roznos Meadow hike to East Bluff), I couldn’t figure out why we took the Ice Age trail to get to our scheduled campsite. I asked dd this morning, who is the Patrol Leader and she said we actually took Balanced Rock trail which would bring us around to our campsite. This makes much more sense based on the views we had from the trail and the photos on the website.

I’m pretty angry about the whole thing. On the Rosznos meadow trail we were all tired. The leaders kept saying, “up ahead it will be much easier because it’s downhill.” If they knew we were tired, how could they bring us down that trail? They knew were already struggling with our packs. Our balance was definitely thrown off by those packs. And it was our first hike. The troop leaders made several very bad calls that day.

It sounds like they did not consider the difficulty of that trail, especially with a loaded pack and young, inexperienced scouts.

I would make sure that they have filed an incident report with the council. Call the council to confirm if necessary. Ask for an incident review to identify what went wrong and how to prevent this in the future - best to have a neutral party conduct this. Make sure they include action items for training or re-training leaders.

How they respond to this would weigh in my choice of staying with this particular troop.

[DualvansMommy]

I reviewed the map yesterday and the day before because I also found out the website you linked to today. The website photos of the Ice Age Trail didn’t resemble our trail. Based on where I parked our car and the initial hike (Roznos Meadow hike to East Bluff), I couldn’t figure out why we took the Ice Age trail to get to our scheduled campsite. I asked dd this morning, who is the Patrol Leader and she said we actually took Balanced Rock trail which would bring us around to our campsite. This makes much more sense based on the views we had from the trail and the photos on the website.

I’m pretty angry about the whole thing. On the Rosznos meadow trail we were all tired. The leaders kept saying, “up ahead it will be much easier because it’s downhill.” If they knew we were tired, how could they bring us down that trail? They knew were already struggling with our packs. Our balance was definitely thrown off by those packs. And it was our first hike. The troop leaders made several very bad calls that day.

If your group was supposed to do the Ice trail route, which is medium in difficulty level according to link up thread. But you're saying now that you all actually went on the balanced rock trial instead?? If so, that is a huge oversight. I would have had concerns with ice trail route if it was all of your first serious hike with packs to begin with! I looked at the description of balanced rock which sounds downright hard for a first time hike with packs.

[StantonHyde]

Do you have internal or external frame packs? I only hike with intrr err nail frame—much better for balance. And use trekking poles—great for balance and helps you get up and down hills. For future reference, obviously

[Kindra178]

How scary! I'm so sorry to hear you're hurt and thankful there were so many great people around you to help.

Ankle surgery -- absolutely, definitely see an orthopedic surgeon who specializes in foot and ankles, and not a general ortho or a podiatrist. The difference in training and experience is huge.

Thank yous -- heartfelt thank you notes really go a long way, so definitely include those. I love the nomination suggestion someone listed above, too. I'd probably also send everyone either some fancy decorated cookies, fancy cupcakes, or a nice bouquet of flowers. Nothing too elaborate (other than effusive thank you's!) but something generous to show your appreciation.

Scout Troop - it's a new troop, there's a lot of reasons this hike might not have gone as planned. I wouldn't pull your DD yet. I would wait until you're feeling better from the ankle break (off pain meds, out of pain), and then have a discussion with the troop leaders about your concerns. I'd be prepared to start by listening and gauging (perhaps they've realized they need to make some changes, too), but also prepared with suggestions for future hikes --things like weighing the packs, reviewing trails, etc. If your DH is willing, maybe he can volunteer to help with guidelines/checking routes, etc. as it sounds like he has experience. If the troop leader is open to making improvements, etc. that's great. If he's totally defensive/feels like everything was fine, then I'd be more concerned. Either way, at this point I think it's a good time to monitor and suggest changes as needed, not time to just pull DD out. I too wouldn't worry too much about the comments around the campfire that night, as it very much could have been aimed at keeping the kids (esp knowing your DD was still there) from worrying too much.

I'll be sending you lots of P&PT for healing and a successful surgery!

Yes to all this. I am sorry you got injured, I hope you heal fast.

I know you probably know this already but going to PT will be a really important step in the recovery. Figuring out where, when and how you will get there now will take something off your list post surgery.

[California]

Oh Lisa, ouch!! It sounds like so many mistakes were made, but the army doc was there at the perfect place and time!

Agreeing with previous posters who have pointed out that the volunteer model of BSA puts non-experts in positions of leadership. This isn't throwing shade, this is something that is going to happen when you have a nationwide system of volunteers who are doing their best. The kids are really reliant on the good judgement of the troop leaders. Most of the time that works out just fine. In your situation, that judgement was seriously lacking! It sounds at least like the moms in the troop were great in an emergency.

My personal story is that we had a troop leader cut across a meadow and get a small group of scouts (including my kid) lost in the woods on a hot day with very little water. (They were supposed to be walking to an archery area.) I think they spent the first hour with the leader saying stuff like, "Almost there! We'll see it soon!" before they realized they were completely lost. Fortunately after a few hours they crossed paths with a couple of non-scout hikers who got them back safely. I wasn't mad at the leader but it was a good wake up call for DH and me. We realized we needed to be much more involved in the planning and present on outings. A year later, a different troop leader accidentally chose the wrong path and took them on a much longer and harder hike in the desert. But at least DH was there with plenty of water and snacks (oh vey!).

In your scenario, the hike choice was intentional, the packs were intentional- that all would have me much more concerned than our leaders' good faith mistake. But at the same time, the fact that these were choices (vs accidental mistakes) means that better planning will prevent this from happening again. Going through an incident report and seeing how the leader handles the review would give you some insight into his character. If he won't listen and gets defensive, then this is likely to happen again in the future. If he's willing to admit to mistakes and work as a team, I'd stick with the troop and be a stronger presence in the planning. That troop is lucky to have your family!