S/O small vs. large colleges

[PunkyBoo]

DS1 is a junior in HS and we are spending a lot of time discussing college options. He knows what he wants to major in and it's not a hugely popular program and isn't available at all at many colleges. I'd been planning to take him on a bunch of college tours over the last year to just get a feel for things, but obviously that hasn't happened.
DH and I went to a very large private urban university but it was a long time ago and things are just so different now. So I don't know how to guide his thinking or answer his questions about small vs. large colleges. Won't the gen ed classes be big at most schools? I had several big lectures but the labs and core courses were very reasonable. Despite how big my school was, I never had any issues getting the classes I wanted and needed, never struggled to meet with my advisor or get teacher's attention/go to office hours, make friends in my classes as well as having lots of extracurricular opportunities. He knows he wants a college in an area that's not rural and offers the convenience of city/suburban life. He goes to a large public high school (~2800 kids in 4 grades) but he also attended a small catholic school for grades 4-6 where there was only 1 class per grade and he hated how small it was.
So please help me understand- what are the pros and cons of small vs. large? What is the threshold to define what counts as "large"?

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[SnuggleBuggles]

It was a gut thing for ds1. Every small school he toured he immediately felt like they were too small. Those were schools in the 2000 range.

Personally I think he would have done well in that 5000-10000 zone or smaller. In high school he loved his AP classes that had 12 or fewer kids. He loved the personal attention of the teachers and the comfort of knowing everyone/ forming a community. He has always been exceptionally good at talking to teachers so being at a large school with TAs and limited access to the professors seemed like it would be a challenge.

Well, school during a pandemic is a challenge. All of his classes are online. But, he has attended office hours with professors and the students have created chat groups for all of their classes. I almost think the virtual experience has connected the kids more than in person.

In college I was pretty anonymous at my large school. I pretty much floated through socially and academically after I transferred schools. I liked some things about my freshman year school (about 8000 students) but it felt too small. It was also too much personal attention. I floundered in my French class (I tested into a junior level class but struggled) and they called my parents. I am pretty sure they can't do that anymore (FERPA? some acronym that ensures their privacy). I pretty much just didn't do college right though...but I finished.

I thought ds1 was going to be sold on this one school. We went on the accepted student tour (which is so much better than the generic tours!) and they broke us off into groups by major (general to start- sciences, arts, business...). They walked us around those departments then splintered off based on intended major. He was the sole kid in his major. He got a personal tour with the head of the department. The department head was clearly popular and well liked. He had all of 6 kids graduating that year and the students were in and out of his office. There is no doubt if he had chosen that school he would have had lots of support and attention. But, the larger schools offered a lot more in the way of research opportunities.

It's hard to really know what will work best. I think the best advice is to just make connections at any school. Big or small can feel isolating and anonymous. Office hours, clubs, study groups...those matter at any school.

Oh, on size threshold- there are a ton of schools in that 2500 or less range. That 5000-10000 range is not very common (at least for our specific searches- I am sure there are more but we probably ruled them out so they have left my brain). I think 20000+ is large.

[gatorsmom]

Have you seen the book, Rugg’s Recommendations? A friend gave me her copy recently. It ranks undergraduate programs at American universities and colleges by the strength of their program and tells how large the student population is at each university. Extra large universities are considered over 20,000 students, large are 8000-20,000, medium is 3000-8000, moderate are 1000-3000 students and small are considered less than 1000 students.

If you tell me which major your son’s interested in and what size university he’s looking for, I can tell you which universities have a strong program for his major.

[California]

After talking with college students, my DS switched from wanting to go to a big UC to a small college. The pros in his opinion- more collaborative environment among students, small classes (max size is 40 students for general ed), professors engaged and there to teach (vs professors who are more research-focused and not very good at teaching), better advising, students get more individual attention. The cons- more hand holding of students, no chance to be anonymous, less course options for general ed, can be more expensive, if you dislike a professor in your major you may be stuck with them for future classes. (I’ll respond more later- ironically it’s college night via zoom at my DDs school!)

[erosenst]

I think one thing that plays in here is the size of the high school. DD’s is 5400 kids. She is mostly interested in large schools, because smaller feel like “kinda a repeat” in her words.

Just something to think about.


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[SnuggleBuggles]

After talking with college students, my DS switched from wanting to go to a big UC to a small college. The pros in his opinion- more collaborative environment among students, small classes (max size is 40 students for general ed), professors engaged and there to teach (vs professors who are more research-focused and not very good at teaching), better advising, students get more individual attention. The cons- more hand holding of students, no chance to be anonymous, less course options for general ed, can be more expensive, if you dislike a professor in your major you may be stuck with them for future classes. (I’ll respond more later- ironically it’s college night via zoom at my DDs school!)

I tried to steer ds1 using the bolded as a reason. He's only a freshman so time will tell if he made a good choice. He has made connections to work on some research- there are a ton of opportunities so that is a plus side! I also admit that I personally struggled with a lot of foreign TAs whose accents I just couldn't get past. It's something I still struggle with. I tried to push him to a school that didn't really use TAs to teach but he seems to be doing ok.

[PunkyBoo]

Have you seen the book, Rugg’s Recommendations? A friend gave me her copy recently. It ranks undergraduate programs at American universities and colleges by the strength of their program and tells how large the student population is at each university. Extra large universities are considered over 20,000 students, large are 8000-20,000, medium is 3000-8000, moderate are 1000-3000 students and small are considered less than 1000 students.

If you tell me which major your son’s interested in and what size university he’s looking for, I can tell you which universities have a strong program for his major.

I have not heard of that book. He's been googling and just poking through college websites to find schools. He wants to major in neuroscience but some schools have a program in biology dept, some have it in psychology dept, and others have a specific cognitive science dept. He is assuming he'll go to med school after undergrad, but wants to explore the different facets of the science to decide which direction he wants to go. He knows (at this point) that he does not want to be a surgeon. But he also wants to stay here in western states but is considering maybe schools in the Midwest (I think he read that northwestern has a good program). That program will pretty much require research opportunities.

CALIFORNIA- (I can't figure out how to quote additional PPs) he's looking at a lot of the UC schools because many have good neuroscience programs and being in state has advantages. But he's not great about asserting himself to ask for help so I don't want him to get lost. But maybe because the program is more specialized, maybe the classes/accessibility will be ok. ?



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[essnce629]

DS1 is most likely leaning towards small (under 3000 undergrads) liberal arts colleges.

His reasons and benefits:
* small class sizes (30 or less even for GE courses)
* all classes/labs/discussions taught by professors (no TAs)
* close relationships with professors which would lead to more research and internship opportunities
* better 4 year graduation rate
* better retention rate
* more students who study abroad
* no impacted majors
* the ability to explore areas of interest, double major, double minor while still graduating in 4 years
* better advising (often have both a college advisor and a faculty advisor)

We toured several local schools DS1's sophomore and junior year and he really didn't like any of the large universities (20k or more undergrads). They were just way too big with too many people and he had zero interest in all of the schools' rah rah over the top school spirit and sports culture and Greek life. He's the type of person who would never go to his school's football or basketball game and didn't want a college that revolved around that. Also, most of the large universities had GE classes with up to 500 or more students and TAs who led the discussion groups. DS1 didn't like that. Since we're in CA I still made him apply to two UC schools, but he really has zero interest in either of them. He did apply to Western Washington University which is a much smaller public university (9k undergrads) with an honors college (so some of the benefits of a small school).

DS1 grew up going to smaller charter and private schools. His elementary and middle schools were both about 250 kids and his current private school has a graduating class of about 70 kids. So he's already used to small and loves having close relationships with his teachers and having them for multiple classes over the years. His high school has no football team, which was a selling point for him.

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[NCGrandma]

I’ve noticed that several recent college threads have used the term "impacted majors." I’ve never heard before. Can anyone explain?


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[carolinacool]

I’ve noticed that several recent college threads have used the term "impacted majors." I’ve never heard before. Can anyone explain?


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I hadn't heard of that, either. This is what I found. https://www2.calstate.edu/csu-system...0is%20impacted.

Basically, it sounds like an issue when a program receives more applicants than it can accommodate, so it puts standards in place for admission. I know the journalism program at UNC is like this. I had to have a certain GPA and pass an editing test to be admitted. It is, or at least was, a very popular major. Same with the education school. My best friend ended up not qualifying and had to switch her major.

I went to UNC, so clearly I was all about a big school. Give me football games, basketball games, jumping over burning couches () and ALL of that. Four of the best years of my life. DS is only 11, but unless something changes, I don't think he would do well in the environment at all. I don't think it's necessarily sink or swim, but you do have to advocate for yourself. It's easy to get lost, especially in the big general college courses that freshmen and sophomore take.