Kids vs MIL (update in #23)

[Twoboos]

Looking for some advice. My teen DDs are very aware of social justice issues, and have very firm opinions about them. MIL is in her late 70s and is just plain racist about certain things, and has literally said she will never change. Let's just say their views are at odds, and it usually leads to very intense debate which MIL believes is disrespectful bc DDs are "talking back" to her (which is obviously due to bad parenting). I have tried to explain just letting things go to maintain peace but DDs do not see why they should be silenced.

We are going to spend a week with (fully vaxed) MIL and I am dreading the brawls. DDs can't seem to keep their mouths shut lol. Any advice on how to present this to DDs to make this week tolerable for everyone. I get that her views go against everything DDs believe but sometimes you need to walk away, and they won't. I've tried to ask what's more important - being right or a relationship with their grandma and they seem to think it's being right, even though MIL will never think they're right.

(I really need help with managing this ongoing issue not discussing whether we should be spending a week with MIL, so please focus on that. Thanks!!)

[Liziz]

Oh geez, that is a tough one! First and foremost, congratulations for raising such socially aware, confident young women who are comfortable speaking up when they recognize something is wrong or inappropriate. They are good for society and for our world!

I would really struggle to tell my DDs to stop or not call out racist and inappropriate comments, tbh. I think they're in the right, and I get really frustrated when old people think that "respect" equals allowing them to say things that are in and of themselves disrespectful. The best thing I can think of is to coach your DDs in how to avoid topics of tension and disagreement. Are there things they all enjoy that they can focus on and avoid those topics? Maybe if you and your DDs are proactively bringing up non-hot topics, the hot topics are less likely to come up. It could be a time for your DH to talk to his mom as well and just say "hey - these topics are off limits this week". I would focus less on "don't respond" and more on making sure they have ways to articulate their views that are respectful -- saying "wow, that's a really unfair generalization to make, here's why I think that" is IMO totally okay, saying "you're an idiot and a horrible person!" is of course not acceptable and disrespectful, regardless of who it is said to. It still may not stop the disagreements if MIL is expecting pure obedience to whatever she says, but at least you can be comfortable that your DDs are being respectful. I'd also coach my DDs to do more walking away instead of debating -- i.e. - it's fine to call out the inappropriate/racist comment, but them remove yourself from the conversation rather than continuing. Hopefully that would allow them to feel they were able to express their views while also avoid the huge brawls.

Or, honestly, maybe just bring a good audiobook and plug in your earbuds every time a brawl ensues so you don't have to listen to it. I think it's important and wonderful for children to have relationships with their grandparents, but if the grandparent is clearly acting in an inappropriate and disrespectful way herself and the child is forced to just deal with it, I don't think that's really a good building block for a great relationship anyways.

[dogmom]

That’s a tough one. Since they’re teens and clearly can advocate for themselves I would ASK them what they plan to do. “So, I know Grandma has racist* views, and that you guys argue about it. What’s your plan for staying with her for a week?” Listen, ask a lot of open ended questions. Make sure you ask how you can support them. I don’t think you should dictate their behavior, and it doesn’t sound like you want to. Ask how you can make them feel safe. Remember, this is just some spirited discussion about them trying to convince grandma. They are realizing for whatever reason their beloved Grandma would rather hold onto hateful ways of thinking than love & support them. (Yes, I know it’s not that simple. But that is exactly how they can see it.). Also, this is their father’s mother. He needs to be involved with this. I think if you approach them as oppose them to construct a plan, as try to manage them, it will go better. I’m sure there plan won’t be very deep and will go off the rails. But like school project, make some suggestions and set some parameters. I do think you can say something like, “I don’t want to eat every meal turning into an argument. So maybe rules about dinner?” You can teach them some phrases about how to deal with it if MIL tries to provoke them. (If this is something she does.). You and your husband also need to talk ahead of time so you are both on the same page before hand.
Please let us know how it goes! I’m sure a lot of people are in the same boat.

*please don’t shy away from using other words. I don’t think you do because you put it in your post.

[georgiegirl]

That’s a tough one. Since their teens and clearly can advocate for themselves I would ASK them what they plan to do. “So, I know Grandma has racist* views, and that you guys argue about it. What’s your plan for staying with her for a week?” Listen, ask a lot of open ended questions. Make sure you ask how you can support them. I don’t think you should dictate their behavior, and it doesn’t sound like you want to. Ask how you can make them feel safe. Remember, this is just some spirited discussion about them trying to convince grandma. They are realizing for whatever reason their beloved Grandma would rather hold onto hateful ways of thinking than love & support them. (Yes, I know it’s not that simple. But that is exactly how they can see it.). Also, this is their father’s mother. He needs to be involved with this. I think if you approach them as oppose them to construct a plan, as try to manage them, it will go better. I’m sure there plan won’t be very deep and will go off the rails. But like school project, make some suggestions and set some parameters. I do think you can say something like, “I don’t want to eat every meal turning into an argument. So maybe rules about dinner?” You can teach them some phrases about how to deal with it if MIL tries to provoke them. (If this is something she does.). You and your husband also need to talk ahead of time so you are both on the same page before hand.
Please let us know how it goes! I’m sure a lot of people are in the same boat.

*please don’t shy away from using other words. I don’t think you do because you put it in your post.

I totally agree with this approach. My DD is almost 15, and she’s very socially aware and not afraid to speak her mind to anyone. I’m sure she’d call out her grandparents if they had racist views too. Definitely be upfront with them and acknowledge that you agree that grandma has racist views, empathize that it must be hard to listen to her say things that are so upsetting, and tell them that you are proud of them for being so passionate and vocal. And then tell them they aren’t going to change grandma’s mind and you’d appreciate if they didn’t engage with her frequently when she says racist stuff. Maybe you can have a code word or phrase that you all can share that means “yep, grandma is saying racist crap again and it’s so hard to not say anything.” Maybe offer them a reward for biting their tongues.


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[gatorsmom]

What about telling your girls to feel sorry for their grandmother? She’s of a different time an different era and she has had experiences that shaped her viewpoint. It’s sad that she feels that way about entire races of people she doesn’t even know. Old people need love and support because getting older is hard (it hurts!). Also, it’s confusing and hard knowing you are losing control over your health and your ability to improve your life and affect change. Maybe if you help them see things from their grandmothers’ perspective, they will be more empathetic.

[carolinamama]

You have gotten great responses so far and I agree with helping your daughters form a plan ahead of the visit. As I'm understanding it, your MIL is coming to visit in your home, your daughters' home, so I'm answering from that perspective. If the discussion does go off the rails and adults (preferably your DH) need to step in, it's not wrong for you to say something along the lines of "in our home, we don't speak about other human beings like that or we don't say xxx about people". You won't change her way of thinking, you aren't even trying, but you may need to draw some boundaries. It shows support for your girls, their concern for social justice and respectfully lets MIL know she needs to back off. Supporting your daughters in their home feels most important and IMO, it's not their responsibility to listen to racist talk in their own environment. No matter her age or relationship, MIL is the one speaking inappropriately, not your daughters from what you've written.

Your daughters sound amazing and I hope my kids speak up respectfully should they be in the same situation.

[MaiseyDog]

DD1 is very socially aware and has no problem standing her ground with anyone. We have had lots of discussions about when is the right time and place for confrontation. My take is that, in general, you can't go around bowing up on everyone who says stupid stuff or things you don't agree with. You have to evaluate the situation and decide if its the right time. Maybe it would be better to discuss how to not engage, how to change the subject. Not that she can't call out a racist comment, but everything doesn't have to devolve into a confrontation. She can say "Grandma, that's racist and I don't want to talk about that" and then disconnect and change the subject. It's not about ignoring the racist stuff, but choosing to not engage because the outcome will not be positive. Grandma is unlikely to change her mind and it's only going to hurt the relationship and make those around the situation uncomfortable.

[bisous]

All I can say is that I'm 45 and have good social skills and this is something that I am struggling with. How to speak out on things I find morally reprehensible but also be nuanced, subtle, charitable, and respectful. So this is a really hard thing. I appreciate the responses that you've received so far.

[niccig]

So grandma can say whatever she wants and won’t change, but the girls need to bite their tongues and not say anything?? Ideally DH, her son, should shut grandma down with “we don’t talk about people like that in this house mom”, and then change the topic. Or you do it if DH isn’t there. Unless she has dementia, grandma can bite her tongue. She’ll keep saying it though unless she’s told not to and it’s enforced.

I believe as parents it’s our job to shut down the mean nasty comments coming from family to protect our kids. They’ll see you shut it down and not engaging with her.


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[Kestrel]

I wanted to mention - make sure your DDs have their bedroom space as private - no MIL. If they need to walk away from a "discussion", they need to feel like they have a place to go, and that MIL won't follow and confront them there. It's DDs home, MIL is the guest, and should be acting that way. Tell MIL that DDs are growing up and their space is private.

Closed doors get knocked on, you know?

Keep supporting your girls.