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  1. #1
    ♥ms.pacman♥ is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Default need middle school advice (math classes)

    DS (11) will be heading off to middle school in August (OT, but how is this happening? Wasn't it just the other day I was posting asking about nursing in public, cloth diapers, etc...LOL).

    We just found out yesterday he qualified for a very selective advanced math program that our district offers. At the middle school level It basically involves the following courses

    6th grade: take honors 7th grade math (+ some addl work)
    7th grade: take honors Algebra I (+ some addl stuff)
    8th grade: take honors Geometry

    the point of all this is not only accelerated math, but when they get to 9th grade/high school, they can credit for algebra & Geometry and can start 9th grade with Algebra II. Then 10th-grade trig/pre-calc, and 11th grade AP Calculus, etc.

    DH & I are both engineers and think this is a big deal. I went to a middle school that did not offer any advanced math whatsoever, so I started HS (9th grade) with just Algebra I. Thus I never got opportunity to take any form of calculus in high school, and was at major disadvantage once I went off to college as an engineering major, in comparison to all other engineering students who had already taken AP Calculus AB, BC, etc. I was literally the only kid I knew in engineering that had never taken any calculus before college, and this was in the mid-1990s. It made for a stressful transition my first year of college.

    DH went to an very underserved middle school and high school (historically redlined, mostly minority , poor district) that had limited math classes. Despite that, DH was very into math from an early age and did math competitions etc. He had to fight his way out of crappy schools and into a magnet boarding school for last years of HS. DH commented that he would have killed to be able to have this adv math option that this very-highly rated program our district offers.

    Now for the problem: DS doesn't want to do this adv math program. Not because he hates math or anything like that.. but because it would require him to go to a different middle school that what he's zoned for. He wants to go to the middle school most of his friends are going to. That's literally the only reason. He didn't even want to take the placement test for this program...then agreed to do it, pretty much only to check out which other students were also taking it (lol). Over time realized that none of his good friends are considering the program, which solidified his decision.

    I am struggling with this. Half of me wants to allow him to make his own decisions; the other half is the frustrated parent seeing him turn down a very good opportunity, that I & DH would have walked over hot coals for. The other part is - I don't think my DS realizes how middle school is so different, that there are literally over 1000 students and the odds of having elem school friends in his classes even at same school is minimal. I get the impression that middle schoolers mainly hang out with the kids that are in the same extra curricular (band, sport, dance, etc). Or maybe they get time to chat at lunch? I have no idea, I didn't go to a typical middle school.

    I should note that even if he turns down this program, he could still take honors math etc at the MS he is zoned for, but still wouldn't nearly be as accelerated as this math program at this other MS (No geometry offered at this middle school). He does have the option of doing a "credit by exam" to skip ahead and start with 7th grade math in 6th, but th en by 8th he would need to go off-campus before school starts to take geometry (not an issue; my kid is an early riser).

    Would love to hear inputs from middle school/high school parents, especially those who have faced similar dilemmas with their kiddo. I am trying to talk to other parents in same district...though we have been virtual learning for over a year now (and no in-person extra curriculars) and while it has been going very well, very limited opportunity to talk to other parents. I do have some co-workers with slightly older kids who have their kids in this accelerated program (I work with many other engineers), and they all moved mountains to allow their kid to do this program...so it is a very well-regarded program in the district.

    also, kudos to anyone who is still reading this!! Hehe.
    Last edited by ♥ms.pacman♥; 05-13-2021 at 12:18 AM.

  2. #2
    PZMommy is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    How does your son feel about math in general? My son LOVES math, and middle school is the first time they really get a chance to be accelerated. My son is on a similar math track that you mentioned, and is just finishing 6th grade. For the first time he is actually getting challenged and forced to put effort into math which I think is great. He really doesn't know any students at his middle school, which I guess this year didn't matter since he has been virtual all year. Out here a lot of kids go to different middle schools based on magnet programs, so it isn't a big deal to not go to the same school as your friends. If your son is good at math and really enjoys math, then I'd probably push him towards the accelerated track. If math isn't his thing, then I wouldn't push it. The counselor at my son's school said the kids that are successful on this track are the ones that really enjoy math. She said even the best of math students can't handle it if they don't enjoy math.

  3. #3
    ♥ms.pacman♥ is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by PZMommy View Post
    How does your son feel about math in general? My son LOVES math, and middle school is the first time they really get a chance to be accelerated. My son is on a similar math track that you mentioned, and is just finishing 6th grade. For the first time he is actually getting challenged and forced to put effort into math which I think is great. He really doesn't know any students at his middle school, which I guess this year didn't matter since he has been virtual all year. Out here a lot of kids go to different middle schools based on magnet programs, so it isn't a big deal to not go to the same school as your friends. If your son is good at math and really enjoys math, then I'd probably push him towards the accelerated track. If math isn't his thing, then I wouldn't push it. The counselor at my son's school said the kids that are successful on this track are the ones that really enjoy math. She said even the best of math students can't handle it if they don't enjoy math.
    Great question. My DS likes math, but he doesn't LOVE it, like my DH did at the same age. He is very good at it, lcan appreciate it, doesn't understand why some people find it difficult, but doesn't LOVE it. Not the type to want to do math competitions and the like. My DS is way more interest things like building , motors, robotics, circuits, etc. Also very into art. He was in the gifted program since Kinder and despite occasionally saying he didn't want to be in it (again, probably bc he didn't want to be pulled out away from his friends) he enjoyed it. The kid is extremely tech-savvy and could probably provide better tech support than most adults.

    Though being electrical engineer I recognize that math foundation is really critical for engineering classes in college (physics, etc).

  4. #4
    mommy111 is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    One of the things I’ve Realized about kids is that what you perceive as an opportunity to die for, they perceive as a Choice with pros and cons very different from the ones that you would’ve considered. I guess it’s the privilege that they are brought up with. I’d let him decide. Otherwise you’re setting yourself up for six years of struggle over pushy mom and curriculum choices. At some point between DC and DN, I’ve learned to lay out the choices for them and then follow their lead

  5. #5
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    These are the kinds of dilemma that I worry over for months. Hugs to you, these are big decisions. And congrats and high fives to your son! He should be so proud of himself! On the one hand I could see how this accelerated program would benefit him in the future. My oldest DS is planning his senior courses to prepare him for a college engineering program. Everything revolves around the math. If your son took the accelerated route and did well, he could really be well-prepared for college.

    But there are those parents who would say not to to worry too much about preparing for college at this age. College is a long way off. And there is some truth to the idea that MS is scary and kids at that age struggle to find their crowd. Letting your son head into MS with some of his friends will ease the transition and give him confidence. At the very least, knowing he’s starting a new school with his friends might give him peace of mind.

    At this age, it likely won’t matter how much you try to explain your reasoning to him. High school and college do seem a long way off. Could he spend a day shadowing a student at the school with the accelerated program? Mine did that before he started high school and it really changed how he felt about the high school he toured. Maybe meet with some of his future teachers? I also find that if another adult explains to my kids why something is good for them, they are more likely to listen than when I say it.

    The good news is that your DS is smart enough that even if he takes a less accelerated path, he will perform well and most likely be ahead of his classmates. And with proactive parents, he won’t make poor choices that really set him back. Either way, your DS will do well.
    Last edited by gatorsmom; 05-13-2021 at 12:41 AM.
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  6. #6
    sariana is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    I would let him do the regular accelerated program and stay at his home school. Friendships are really important, in some ways more important than academics. Most people find success more through the relationships they build than from the classes they take in middle/high school.

    And there is some research showing that accelerating too much too young is detrimental in higher-level math courses. It is definitely not conclusive, but the development of the brain is poorly understood, and there rarely is a detriment to taking one's time. If his choices were algebra in 6th versus waiting until 9th grade, I would feel differently. But it sounds as though he will still have a viable option for an appropriate math path, just not super acceleration.
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  7. #7
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    If he goes to his preferred middle school; there are other ways to get another year of math in if he needs or wants to. I took 2 classes at the high school in the morning before riding the bus with a few other kids back to the middle school for the rest of my classes in 8th grade, and I took a summer class and a night class at the local community college during high school.

    Depending on what the high school offers, there may or may not be any advantage to taking anything beyond algebra 1 in 8th grade. I took AP Calculus (the only calculus offered at my high school) in 11th grade then had no good math options for my senior year. I ended up going to a local college for statistics in the afternoon, but that didn’t really benefit me.


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  8. #8
    m4nash is offline Silver level (200+ posts)
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    Do you know what your state’s requirements are for math in high school? In Our district they require everyone to be enrolled in math all 4 years in high school.

    My older sons both took (or will take) Geometry in 8th grade, but I regret that decision for my oldest. He wants to be a music major in college and now he will take Calculus as a Junior in high school and rather than get to take an extra music class his senior year he can take Differential Equations or maybe AP Statistics, which he isn’t excited about.

    Our public schools even offer a more accelerated math track where you take Algebra II in 8th grade, but that just seems like something that would only be a good fit for a select few.

    I would let your DS stay at his nieghborhood school and do the regular accelerated program there.

  9. #9
    SnuggleBuggles is offline Black Diamond level (25,000+ posts)
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    (didn't read the other replies- sorry if I duplicate)
    Even if he just finishes with algebra 1 he could still get to calculus, right? some sequence of:
    9 geometry
    10 trig
    11 algebra 2
    12 calc

    We pushed ds1 ahead so that he would finish that sequence above junior year and then be able to take the next calc or stats. Senior year came and he loaded up on theater classes instead. It was actually a bit of a challenge for college because he had to do a placement test over the summer and he was all rusty from not having math for so long. He had to re-take the placement test (which is allowed) but requires 9 hours of guided study modules before re-taking. That was a slog but he aced it.

    A lot of kids he went to high school with transferred to our public school from Catholic schools or charter schools and arrived with just algebra. A lot of them doubled up in 9th grade on math to get ahead. There are always solutions.

    Now, for the logistics- where is the school relative to your home and where you would be zoned for? You'll have 2 kids in 2 buildings next year. How much time do you want to spend driving between them? Also, is the math school convenient to home if all of his friends will live over there? Or if you have to get him from extracurricular activities? When you are already scrambling with timing dinner and stuff, having to drive out of your way to get him from an activity will ad an extra wrinkle too.

    My kids attended a k-8 charter and not a single one of their friends lives close by and none of them went on to the same high school. It's a pain and it was also a social challenge during the pandemic. Many of the kids live in the same neighborhood and formed a pod- they hung out throughout the pandemic (outside, masks) but ds2 wasn't part of that because it was good, old fashioned, let's go ride our bikes type hanging out and me driving him 20 minutes wasn't the same. Yes, the pandemic wasn't the norm but it has always been annoying that their friends have never lived close by.

    I do see your point about how big the middle schools are there though- way different than our schools here. But, think through the logistics especially if he just isn't that into it. He will have math opportunities. Even if not accelerated, he will reach calc.

    Oh, and my kid was a science kid. The traditional, not pushed, math schedule is actually better. For our school, calc and physics line up the same year and the material feeds off of one another; the kids who were taking both at the same time appreciated that. Ds1 didn't mind because he still remembered calc but there's something to be said for why schools have their classes coordinated a certain way. Our high school has suggested pathways laid out so you can see what classes they recommend each year for kids interested in different things. Maybe see if you can find one.

  10. #10
    Philly Mom is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Default need middle school advice (math classes)

    I think you have received good advice. I would maybe ask parents/kids in the zoned middle school if the advanced math feels challenging/interesting. Otherwise, I could see framing the argument of being engaged vs board, but I would still let him decide.

    I also wasn’t sure if you meant 1000 kids in a grade or in the school as a whole. We have 1000+ kids in our middle schools and no one thinks it is too big. The kids do branch out but I know that their elementary friends provide comfort in the beginning.


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    Last edited by Philly Mom; 05-13-2021 at 09:05 AM.

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