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  1. #11
    MSWR0319 is online now Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    Middle school is hard. I would let him stay where he wants and just have him take the honors class. At this age for me, it's more about finding the right social group. These kids have a lot to navigate at this age and if he has a solid group of friends then I think it's best for him to stay with them. My sister teaches 6th grade and was mentioning all of the stuff they have to deal with: vaping, drugs, bullying, etc. All of the typical MS/HS stuff. I would want my kid to have a solid group of people during that transition to help make right choices. If he goes to a new school, he'd have to make a new group of friends. Which can be hard and you wouldn't want him to get into the wrong group of kids, which often happens at first when you are the new kid. Not always, but it happens. Something else I would consider would be if he'd be able to socialize outside of school with his new friends. Are they close enough to you that you don't mind driving to see them or pick them up, etc. If he wanted to change that would be a different story, but 6th grade is just such a change for these kids.

  2. #12
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    Congrats to your DS! It sounds like he has worked hard to hone his talents in school. As you probably know, there isn't a wrong answer here. It's easy, as parents, to see 10 years into the future but that's practically half his life so our perspective counts. The program will open doors he can't yet imagine, let alone see, and we want our kids to have the opportunities we didn't. Minus the accelerated math program, does your DS have any other reasons to attend the other middle school? Math is important but so are the other core classes and electives. Will he know a few kids? Socializing changes through the middle school years - will he be close enough to school friends to hang out? On the other hand, the accelerated program enables him to be surrounded by other math-minded peers who could be a very positive influence.

    As my kids have gotten older, I've found peace with the notion that I can't want something for my kids more than they want it. It's so hard but the struggles aren't worth it. DS1 is similar to your DS. He's so naturally bright and was in the gifted program in elementary and middle school. He loved robotics and science olympiad throughout elementary and middle and thought he'd follow DH into engineering. DS1 was also placed into the most accelerated math track for middle school. Our situation was different - he wouldn't go to a different middle school but math would be taught online with kids from other schools. We ended up pulling him back to the regular accelerated math and he will finish with Calculus as a senior instead of a junior. Ultimately, we chose the interactive in-person experience over online but if the class wasn't online, our choice would have been different. Was it the right decision? Who knows but I don't lose sleep over it, anymore at least. He contemplated doubling his math classes next year (10th grade) to "catch up" since his high school is on a block schedule but opted to do extra French (he will have 4 years of French at the end of his 10th grade year since it's blocked) and the AP seminar/research capstone. He and I talked through his choices, laid out the pros and cons and then he made the decision. He's now leaning towards a career in medicine.

    Ultimately, your DS will likely thrive in either school. He has involved parents and a great academic mind. Your DS should be very proud of being selected. Good luck in making the choice for HIM - you are doing great mama!
    Mom to Two Wild and Crazy Boys and One Sweet Baby Girl

  3. #13
    o_mom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by SnuggleBuggles View Post
    (didn't read the other replies- sorry if I duplicate)
    Even if he just finishes with algebra 1 he could still get to calculus, right? some sequence of:
    9 geometry
    10 trig
    11 algebra 2
    12 calc

    We pushed ds1 ahead so that he would finish that sequence above junior year and then be able to take the next calc or stats. Senior year came and he loaded up on theater classes instead. It was actually a bit of a challenge for college because he had to do a placement test over the summer and he was all rusty from not having math for so long. He had to re-take the placement test (which is allowed) but requires 9 hours of guided study modules before re-taking. That was a slog but he aced it.

    A lot of kids he went to high school with transferred to our public school from Catholic schools or charter schools and arrived with just algebra. A lot of them doubled up in 9th grade on math to get ahead. There are always solutions.


    ...

    I do see your point about how big the middle schools are there though- way different than our schools here. But, think through the logistics especially if he just isn't that into it. He will have math opportunities. Even if not accelerated, he will reach calc.

    Oh, and my kid was a science kid. The traditional, not pushed, math schedule is actually better. For our school, calc and physics line up the same year and the material feeds off of one another; the kids who were taking both at the same time appreciated that. Ds1 didn't mind because he still remembered calc but there's something to be said for why schools have their classes coordinated a certain way. Our high school has suggested pathways laid out so you can see what classes they recommend each year for kids interested in different things. Maybe see if you can find one.
    I have a lot of the same thoughts... I have seen the pathway above (geom in 8th) go really well for some kids, and others burn out or end up repeating classes. Knowing the HS path is important. (Here, your Algebra 2 grade can determine if you go on a path to calculus or the non-calc path - getting a B+ in Algebra 2 as a freshman can basically disqualify you from the calc path unless you retake it. But, that's a whole 'nother rant )

    I also see much of the accelerated math in the same light as reading in elementary - you can't tell in 3rd grade which kids were reading at age 3 vs age 6. I work with loads of Ph.D. scientists (with "only" a MS, I'm one of the least educated). I could not tell you which ones had calc in HS and which ones did not. My goal for my own kids was to have some calc exposure in HS, but not rely on that for college credit. I saw some students my freshman year in college (at a top tier engineering school) who skipped freshman year calc with AP credits and they struggled when thrown into a class where the professors were used to teaching sophomores and juniors. They also had the struggle that SB mentioned where their calc and physics classes don't line up.

    Doubling up with Algebra 2 and Geometry as a freshman is also an option that I have seen some kids take, but by then they have a better idea of how into math they are. Making that decision as a 5th grader is more difficult.

    ETA: Our MS is 1200 students over 3 grades. They usually had some kids they knew in their classes, especially the electives like band, and also at lunch and in extracurriculars. HS is a different story - they usually only know 1-2 kids in all their classes in a given year.
    Last edited by o_mom; 05-13-2021 at 09:39 AM.
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  4. #14
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    That is so frustrating both middle schools don’t offer this. It is pretty standard here. That is what DS1 is doing now (pre-algebra in 6th.). Our middle school is also quite big (maybe 800 students in 2 grades), and yes, it’s typical not to have anyone your kid knows well in a class...maybe a couple of acquaintance friends. We have 4 elementary schools feeding into the middle school. DD (9th grade) is extra accelerated, taking trig/pre-calc in 9th and AP calc next year in 10th. We are lucky that our home middle school (only option) offers accelerated math tracks.

    Are there any other benefits to the middle school offering the advanced math track? Is one more convenient? Are there other reasons you could use to push the math middle school? Are there any kids he knows who are going to the other school? How easily does he make friends?


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  5. #15
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    KpbS is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    I would have him go to the new school and start the new track. He’s very qualified and has great support at home to get him through.

    Middle school (and high) are natural times of transition. Kids move to new schools, move away entirely, change interests and friend groups naturally. It’s a great time to make a change.

    He’ll be fine either way you choose, but I wouldn’t let him make the decision solely. You guys are the parents. With his interests in STEM and robotics he will need and want the extra math soon.

  6. #16
    mmsmom is offline Sapphire level (2000+ posts)
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    If he can take Calculus as a senior in his current school then I would leave him there. IMHO, there is no need for acceleration beyond getting to Calculus senior year. In my area kids that do this type of acceleration end up in a dilemma senior year because they run out of maths to take and colleges want to see you take a math senior year. AP statistics is an option for some but if not they have to take a class at the community college or online to fill that requirement. There is really just no advantage or point to taking AP Calc as a junior.

  7. #17
    LBW is online now Emerald level (3000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmsmom View Post
    If he can take Calculus as a senior in his current school then I would leave him there. IMHO, there is no need for acceleration beyond getting to Calculus senior year. In my area kids that do this type of acceleration end up in a dilemma senior year because they run out of maths to take and colleges want to see you take a math senior year. AP statistics is an option for some but if not they have to take a class at the community college or online to fill that requirement. There is really just no advantage or point to taking AP Calc as a junior.
    I agree with this 100%. I have three boys who have all been in the MS accelerated math program, but here it's structured in a way that in HS they take Geometry in 9th, then Alg II, and 2 years of Calc. They can opt for Statistics as an elective. They also did not have to switch schools. I would have strongly reconsidered the program if they needed to leave their friends.

    If you do feel strongly about encouraging him to enter the acc program, really look at what's offered to the HS seniors for math, and whether or not you think it would benefit him enough to transfer now when he doesn't want it.
    Last edited by LBW; 05-13-2021 at 10:37 AM.
    Tara
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  8. #18
    PunkyBoo is offline Emerald level (3000+ posts)
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    I agree with keeping him at home school with his friends.
    DS1 has always been extremely academic, not due to any pushing but because he loves learning and becoming an expert in things. We had him take the entrance test for a school that is very advanced for 7th-12th. He didn't want to go there, he wanted to go to school with the "regular" kids. We talked up how he'd be academically challenged and engaged for the first time in his life, how many opportunities would come from having that program. He wanted "regular" school. We had him take the test, and he didn't get admitted. He will probably never fess up to it, but we (and the principal at his elementary school) are certain that he bombed the test on purpose. And he was angry with us anytime the subject of that school came up. So he went to the "regular" schools for Jr high and high school, is in the top 10% of his class (of about 700-800 kids per grade), is taking lots of AP classes, has lots of friends from various groups/ activities, and is on track to go to a good college and follow his dream to becoming a doctor.
    But he still has resentment over how much pushing we did toward the advanced school. So I advise you listen to what is important to your son NOW, that will lay the groundwork for him to trust you and still gives him future opportunities.

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  9. #19
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    AnnieW625 is offline Black Diamond level (25,000+ posts)
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    I am not a math person at all (I took the bare minimum to graduate and my highest level is college math....something between algebra 2, and trigonometry) but I think you should let him chose his middle school. Even if he doesn’t have classes with the same kids he will hopefully be able to see the same kids at lunch and it is nice having something in common with the neighborhood. Another bonus is not having to commute.

    My DH is an engineer as well and there was no advanced track in our school district like you describe either and he has been successful and didn’t take calculus until college. He did go to community college right out of high school so I am sure he saw more freshman in his classes vs. if he had been somewhere like MIT, Cal, or Cal Poly but your son won’t be the only freshman not taking calculus even with all of these advanced STEM programs that have become the norm since we were in high school in the early to mid 90s.

    I know one person who attended the school that PunkyBoo referenced and the kid is a genius; he is now a senior double math major in statistics and math at a socal CSU. He is not the norm and the school worked for him, but on the flip side his equally brilliant sister who is two years younger went to a regular high school and did just fine as well.


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  10. #20
    ncat is offline Platinum level (1000+ posts)
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    I think there are huge plusses to staying at local middle school, especially if the other option requires significantly more bus travel time.

    I took Geometry in 8th grade. My high school didn't really have any classes beyond calculus, so I was in a weird program run through one of the local colleges my senior year. I completely fizzled out on math in college.

    That said, we are struggling with a similar issue for DS1. Our district reworked the math curriculum since DD went through. DS1 is taking prealgebra this year (6th). The material has come easy to him and he scores well though not perfect on tests. He has really struggled with homework this year and it has brought his grade down to a B. If he had an A+ he could take Algebra next year and Geometry in 8th. Because he does not, he will take algebra over 2 years, the Geometry in 9th. I fear he will be bored to tears and will be unlikely to develop better homework and study skills if he isn't challenged. We can apply for a waiver and I'm still undecided on whether its worth a try.

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