Myocarditis post vaccination

[ang79]

Has there been any research out of Canada on this? Just curious, as they approved Pfizer for 12-15 before the US did. Also, any research out of England? They were spacing their vaccines further apart in an effort to get first vaccines into more people.


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[MSWR0319]

Has there been any research out of Canada on this? Just curious, as they approved Pfizer for 12-15 before the US did. Also, any research out of England? They were spacing their vaccines further apart in an effort to get first vaccines into more people.


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This is all I’ve found. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6074948
I will say I’m surprised we haven’t heard more about reactions like this from the J&J. My friends’ son who is 25 had pain just like described in the article and was hospitalized for two days after his J&J. He’d had random bouts of chest pain as a child that was never diagnosed as anything. I’m pretty sure she told me it was myocarditis after his shot, but I don’t remember for sure. His body was in so much pain he needed morphine and his hand muscles were clenched like he had CP. The hospital though he was having a drug overdose when they got there, but then told her they’d seen many people like this after the J&J and all they could do was help relieve the pain until the inflammation went away. There has to be something in people’s immune system causing them to react.

[AngB]

Thank you for posting the updates. My son is 11, and will be 12 at the end of the summer.I was already very nervous about him getting the same dose of a vaccine as I did (and I think you were the one who explained to me why 12 year olds get the same dose as adults), but with these myocarditis cases, it makes me even more nervous. He won’t be eligible for another month yet, so I have some more time to see how things play out. And I know covid is also a big risk. I’m not a risk taker at all, so having to make a choice between two things that both have risks is very difficult for me.

My oldest is 10 but with three boys -currently going to summer school with masks but in the fall they will be optional- I am leaning towards getting them the first dose for some efficacy (when it's approved) and waiting a long time before getting them the second dose- if ever. They are healthy with no health conditions so I feel like their risks of getting covid and having issues is very low anyway, but the risks of the vaccine are also low...Only one dose does have some efficacy and doesn't seem to have the complications. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever get them the second dose but we will definitely wait much longer than the 2 weeks, personally. This is just pretending that I actually will get to make this decision because DH is 1000% adamantly against getting them vaccinated at all and that was before the myocarditis stuff was coming out and it's going to be really difficult to convince him, if I even can. (Which makes me want it even more because if we are in a state with a 35%ish vaccination rate among adults, I'm sure when it's opened up to children the vaccination rate among children will probably be like 10-15%...)

[georgiegirl]

My oldest is 10 but with three boys -currently going to summer school with masks but in the fall they will be optional- I am leaning towards getting them the first dose for some efficacy (when it's approved) and waiting a long time before getting them the second dose- if ever. They are healthy with no health conditions so I feel like their risks of getting covid and having issues is very low anyway, but the risks of the vaccine are also low...Only one dose does have some efficacy and doesn't seem to have the complications. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever get them the second dose but we will definitely wait much longer than the 2 weeks, personally. This is just pretending that I actually will get to make this decision because DH is 1000% adamantly against getting them vaccinated at all and that was before the myocarditis stuff was coming out and it's going to be really difficult to convince him, if I even can. (Which makes me want it even more because if we are in a state with a 35%ish vaccination rate among adults, I'm sure when it's opened up to children the vaccination rate among children will probably be like 10-15%...)

Im pretty sure only One shot doesn’t offer much protection against delta. Supposedly only 33% effective after one shot compared to 88% for two doses.
We considered giving DS1 (12 next month but tiny) only one shot until we read those statistics.

[moosemama]

Has there been any research out of Canada on this? Just curious, as they approved Pfizer for 12-15 before the US did. Also, any research out of England? They were spacing their vaccines further apart in an effort to get first vaccines into more people.


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Very few 12-15 year olds in Canada have received their 2nd doses. Because of vaccine shortages, Canada has also spaced doses further apart in order to get first doses to more people.

[chlobo]

Has there been any research out of Canada on this? Just curious, as they approved Pfizer for 12-15 before the US did. Also, any research out of England? They were spacing their vaccines further apart in an effort to get first vaccines into more people.


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I read this article about Israel and at the end it mentions England:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...19-vaccination

"One important question is whether delaying the second vaccine dose might reduce any potential risk. There may be an opportunity to find out: Several countries have stretched the interval between the two doses from the 3 weeks tested and recommended by Pfizer to 12 or even 16 weeks, because they want to give as many people as possible at least one shot. A drop in myocarditis cases among those whose second dose was delayed might show up in data in the months ahead. Lowering the dose in young people may also be worth considering, Liu says. Pfizer’s and Moderna’s vaccines are now being tested at lower doses in children under 12, with results expected in the coming months."

[PZMommy]

I read this article about Israel and at the end it mentions England:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...19-vaccination

"One important question is whether delaying the second vaccine dose might reduce any potential risk. There may be an opportunity to find out: Several countries have stretched the interval between the two doses from the 3 weeks tested and recommended by Pfizer to 12 or even 16 weeks, because they want to give as many people as possible at least one shot. A drop in myocarditis cases among those whose second dose was delayed might show up in data in the months ahead. Lowering the dose in young people may also be worth considering, Liu says. Pfizer’s and Moderna’s vaccines are now being tested at lower doses in children under 12, with results expected in the coming months."

I really think the dose is too high for a 12 year old. I had really bad side effects for a week after my second Pfizer dose. I can’t imagine my tiny 12 yr old getting the same dose. And now with the info about myocarditis, it makes me even more nervous. If he were to get vaccinated today as an 11 yr old he would get a smaller dose. But in a month when he turns 12, even though he is still the same weight and size as he is now, he would get a full adult dose. He isn’t changing that much in a month! It just doesn’t make sense to me. At this point I really think I will either not give it to him at all, or just do one dose, but I’m leaning heavily on not doing it at all. I just don’t feel comfortable with it.

[gymnbomb]

I really think the dose is too high for a 12 year old. I had really bad side effects for a week after my second Pfizer dose. I can’t imagine my tiny 12 yr old getting the same dose. And now with the info about myocarditis, it makes me even more nervous. If he were to get vaccinated today as an 11 yr old he would get a smaller dose. But in a month when he turns 12, even though he is still the same weight and size as he is now, he would get a full adult dose. He isn’t changing that much in a month! It just doesn’t make sense to me. At this point I really think I will either not give it to him at all, or just do one dose, but I’m leaning heavily on not doing it at all. I just don’t feel comfortable with it.

I understand your concerns, and I likely would have similar concerns if I had a child that age. However, vaccine reactions seem totally random and not based on size. I'm 110 pounds and only had very minor side effects from my second Pfizer dose (headache, minor fatigue for half a day), but I know some other people had different or more severe side effects. Adult doses aren't based on size. A 90 pound adult would get the same dose as a 350 pound adult.

[chlobo]

I understand your concerns, and I likely would have similar concerns if I had a child that age. However, vaccine reactions seem totally random and not based on size. I'm 110 pounds and only had very minor side effects from my second Pfizer dose (headache, minor fatigue for half a day), but I know some other people had different or more severe side effects. Adult doses aren't based on size. A 90 pound adult would get the same dose as a 350 pound adult.

I think someone earlier said that it isn't so much size but immune response and that younger kids have a stronger immune response. For me, the calculation is similar. The immune response isn't going to change that much between 11 yrs 11 months and 12 years yet the dose does.

[twowhat?]

I really think the dose is too high for a 12 year old. I had really bad side effects for a week after my second Pfizer dose. I can’t imagine my tiny 12 yr old getting the same dose. And now with the info about myocarditis, it makes me even more nervous. If he were to get vaccinated today as an 11 yr old he would get a smaller dose. But in a month when he turns 12, even though he is still the same weight and size as he is now, he would get a full adult dose. He isn’t changing that much in a month! It just doesn’t make sense to me. At this point I really think I will either not give it to him at all, or just do one dose, but I’m leaning heavily on not doing it at all. I just don’t feel comfortable with it.

It is hard, especially when you have a child that is right at that cutoff between doses. 12+ are physiologically more similar to teens/adults in their immune response and that's one reason why that dose was studied in 12+. Someone will always be on the edge of that cutoff, and with the new myocarditis data, it makes the decision harder. I still believe the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks (keeping in mind there's risk in any choice) but if I were you I'd ask his pediatrician. There may be a strategy that might (might being a key word since not proven) minimize risk such as delaying the second dose...but again keeping in mind that only one dose has very poor efficacy against the Delta variant, which is the major concern. I'm also not sure if there's a possibility that you could get your 12yo vaccinated as an 11yo under a doctor's recommendation (once the lower dose is authorized for the under-12s).

Anyway...2 of my close friends are 100% physician families (both mom and dad are MDs) and both families got their 12yo boys vaccinated, and just kept a very close eye on them in the week after the 2nd shot. Neither had any issue but if there were to be an issue, early recognition/intervention surely optimizes outcomes.

Good luck! It's a hard decision for sure.