I don't even need to ask...this is a bad idea right?

[SnuggleBuggles]

I just want to let you know as a nurse that worked in a COVID unit I broke down and cried when I read this.

We are all so exhausted in healthcare. The only reason I haven’t quit is I live in a state doing things right. I love nursing. It’s a huge part of my identity. I am not saying this lightly. We are spent. I don’t have the energy to be angry anymore. I don’t have the energy to keep explaining it to people. I just feel hopeless for our children now.

I understand. But, if we are all vaccinated in our family and wear our masks that is my comfort zone for deciding what activities to do. I know the vaccine isn't a magic cape that we are wearing but I have mostly been treating it like one. There are some scenarios outside of my comfort zone still but this activity posed by OP isn't. Are all the vaccinated people of the world supposed to be sheltering in place at home again? Or would you be ok with this event if it were outside? Or would you only be ok with it if it were outside with masks required? Or just virtual? Or was it just how I answered OP because I didn't come off like I cared or understood Covid? I do. I just don't feel like that activity is that reckless. I know that gatherings like weddings, reunions and such are big drivers of surges. But, we are all vaccinated. I know there are risks. I know what the current stats are on how vaccinated people are faring if they do catch Covid. I am making an informed decision on my risks, as much as anyone can with a moving target like variants.

[dogmom]

I understand. But, if we are all vaccinated in our family and wear our masks that is my comfort zone for deciding what activities to do. I know the vaccine isn't a magic cape that we are wearing but I have mostly been treating it like one. There are some scenarios outside of my comfort zone still but this activity posed by OP isn't. Are all the vaccinated people of the world supposed to be sheltering in place at home again? Or would you be ok with this event if it were outside? Or would you only be ok with it if it were outside with masks required? Or just virtual? Or was it just how I answered OP because I didn't come off like I cared or understood Covid? I do. I just don't feel like that activity is that reckless. I know that gatherings like weddings, reunions and such are big drivers of surges. But, we are all vaccinated. I know there are risks. I know what the current stats are on how vaccinated people are faring if they do catch Covid. I am making an informed decision on my risks, as much as anyone can with a moving target like variants.

Maybe I misunderstood the event. But it’s an indoor event for the Boy Scouts, so I’m assuming it will have kids who can’t be vaccinated. Masks aren’t required. I think it’s a big jump from don’t go to large indoor events that are optional to shelter in place. You weren’t clear about masking. But even if you mask you are giving tacit approval to an event that won’t be safe. It’s pretty clear now vaccinated people can spread COVID. One of my colleagues were part of the Provincetown outbreak July 4th weekend. He just got cold symptoms for two days. Everyone he was with was vaccinated, they weren’t wearing masks. He wouldn’t do it now because he doesn’t want to be responsible for a chain that infects someone that puts someone in the hospital. Everyone has their own comfort level is not the answer. We have to decide as a society what we should be doing.

Honestly, I’m just resigning myself to this going on for another year. Hopefully there won’t be yet another variant that pushes the death toll over a million, which is the minimum I see us getting out of this with.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Maybe I misunderstood the event. But it’s an indoor event for the Boy Scouts, so I’m assuming it will have kids who can’t be vaccinated. Masks aren’t required. I think it’s a big jump from don’t go to large indoor events that are optional to shelter in place. .

It is for older Scouts. Boy Scout aged kids are (almost ) all above 12 years old so I was assuming that many of the attendees would be vaccinated.

[gatorsmom]

It is for older Scouts. Boy Scout aged kids are (almost ) all above 12 years old so I was assuming that many of the attendees would be vaccinated.

Yes, this is why my fully vaccinated family would attend. I know there is still a risk we could catch Covid but v.unlikely it will mean a hospital stay. I am assuming that parents will keep unvaccinated kids home for their safety. For everyone’s mental health some of these activities have to continue to happen. It would be safer outside but the indoor venue probably seemed safe a month or 2 ago when they planned it. One lesson that became crystal clear to me over the past year is that even reasonable-seeming, rational average people have less-than reasonable risk-calculating abilities. They can’t or don’t want to consider risk anymore.

[bisous]

I appreciate the back and forth between Snugglebuggles and Dogmom.

I have really mixed thoughts about the whole event but I feel best about honoring my commitment to go and support the scouts while keeping my little kids at home. My calculus on this is that my older two (my scouts), my DH and I are all vaccinated and we are good compliant mask wearers, the venue has a really high ceiling and is much larger than what is needed for the projected size of the crowd, and the potentially infectious people are staying home. As such, I think it is very unlikely that we'll catch COVID and spread it to my unvaccinated kids. This is what I'm counting on. I do see that there is still room for risk but I feel like it is a good bet we are less likely to catch it in this circumstance than church.

Then, there is the issue of our commitment to attend. The boys can help with the ceremony and that's good experience for them and helps the community. And DH and I were each asked by one of the scouts being honored to attend. Finally, much farther down the line in my reasoning, there's the issue that DS1 is SO close to getting Eagle and this might be motivating to him.

The biggest reason I still feel a little hesitant is that I honestly just don't really like the idea of gathering right now. I feel like most things should be called off or put outside. I think when this was planned it was deemed a responsible activity but those times have changed. I wish I had been successful in convincing them to move it outdoors but my understanding is that it would completely change what they're planning on doing (which is heavy on the AV apparently). But I don't think my "protest vote" of staying home is enough to override my positive reasons for going, nor will it change behavior--the event will still go on.

FWIW, I do think it will be mostly youth over age 12 and adults. Eagle Scouts are usually older teens. BUT, and this is where it gets dicey for me, I really have no idea about vaccine status. I have stopped asking...and masking in this crowd is more mixed than I would expect.

It isn't ideal but we're really trying to do what is right. I also am so sick of weighing each "normal" activity for whether or not partaking is not only safe but also morally correct. But I am willing to keep doing it for the sake of the unprotected. That vaccine for kids just can't come soon enough!

[California]

It is for older Scouts. Boy Scout aged kids are (almost ) all above 12 years old so I was assuming that many of the attendees would be vaccinated.

In general, Boy Scouts is very family friendly and younger siblings are included in events like this. That was one of the things we liked about Boy Scouts when DS was younger. I would not count on a high number being vaccinated. At least in my area, the Boy Scout leaders are in general more religiously and politically conservative, which in CA is correlates to lower vaccination rates.

Bisous, I don't know much about the split between LDS and the Boy Scouts as that happened after DS left BS, but can imagine that it took some extra work from the parents to make sure these boys could reach Eagle Scout after the split. It must feel like an accomplishment for everyone who supported the boys to this rank. I can understand why you want to go. My family would not go- we're only attending outdoor small gatherings at this point- but I can understand you making this decision for your family.

[dogmom]

Bisous, I almost sent you a PM to explain myself. I get there are times a family may decide to incur some risk to something that they deem important. I really don’t judge any ever decision someone makes. But I have the idea that someone would not have any problem with the event is the saddening part. I get that it’s exhausting to always think about this. Heck, I am continuing to fly to Aruba next week, but I have gone out of the way to make it as safe as possible and I will get testing when I get back before I go to work. Others wouldn’t make that decision. But a I wouldn’t say it was problem free.

It’s more that I’m realizing we are not going to get out of this anytime soon. There will be more suffering. There will be more deaths. It has become clear we are unable to deal with this in a way that makes sense.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Bisous, I almost sent you a PM to explain myself. I get there are times a family may decide to incur some risk to something that they deem important. I really don’t judge any ever decision someone makes. But I have the idea that someone would not have any problem with the event is the saddening part. I get that it’s exhausting to always think about this. Heck, I am continuing to fly to Aruba next week, but I have gone out of the way to make it as safe as possible and I will get testing when I get back before I go to work. Others wouldn’t make that decision. But a I wouldn’t say it was problem free.

It’s more that I’m realizing we are not going to get out of this anytime soon. There will be more suffering. There will be more deaths. It has become clear we are unable to deal with this in a way that makes sense.

Since this is a comment on my comment- I meant that after thinking through the known risks, I would have no problem attending. That was my conclusion, not my thought process. My though process has me think it through, just like you decided to go to Aruba.


Sent from my iPhone using Baby Bargains

[bisous]

So we went last night. Probably about 1/3 of the audience was masked. There was only one child under the age of 12. That was sort of surprising...but then this was a group of boys that were all on the older side! It was also not very full. It was probably 1/10 of the capacity of what the room could hold and that also probably made it feel safer. We sat on the back row by ourselves.

I was heartened that the MC made an announcement before the event started that the local area health authorities are recommending masking for all at this time...but that did absolutely nothing to move the needle! Nobody who was unmasked put one on!

I think in my area at least part of the resistance is lack of following the rapidly moving updates of what is going on. At least some of the people who did not wear masks last night were very health conscious and careful (vaccinated, prior mask wearers) and have preexisting conditions. I really think they didn't give a second thought to their safety because of their vaccine status and prior guidance from the CDC!

My own mom who is COVID conscious and who is older and (presumably) has time to follow the news contacted me just yesterday to ask me about "this new Delta variant" (while I feel like this has been a hot topic for several weeks if not months by now!) but she finally heard about it from an email she got from Kaiser, our health insurance company. It was a good opportunity for me to explain why she needed to put the mask back on again which she is happy to do.

DH ended up getting 2 mentor pins last night. (Funny thing is we thought I was getting one because I was specifically invited, but apparently not! No worries!) We were glad to go. We knew all the scouts very personally. DS1 wants to be an eagle again! He told me he wants to try for it. I'm happy for him. He still has some work to do...maybe that extension someone else linked will help out?

It felt safe but we were being very cautious and recognize that it was not a "no risk" activity. I suppose hindsight will tell us whether it was a good idea to go or not! Sadly, it made me think that perhaps simply "asking" the public to put masks back on isn't enough. I wonder if we're going to have to go back to mandating it, like our neighboring county!

[AnnieW625]

Glad things went as well as it could’ve gone and that that the MC made an announcement about the masks; and glad it inspired your DS to finish his Eagle project. Congrats on your DH for getting his awards as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk