How to help a friend - possible borderline personality disorder

[hellokitty]

My cynical response is run while she can. Personality disorders are hard as hell to treat, mostly because the person doesn't see it as a problem. They are happy, it's everybody else who is miserable. There is no medication for this. They have to really commit to therapy. Often they won't unless they realize they will lose everything unless they do. I grew up with a narcissistic personality disordered parent--he has had tons of therapy and takes a variety of meds for depression. He still has no clue that he is a narcissist and he's in his 80s. As someone who works in mental health (not a provider) I can tell you that personality disorders are the bane of everyone because they are so hard to treat. And they threaten to kill themselves all the time--it's a way to get what they want. (not saying you shouldn't take threats seriously, but it gets draining)

Your friend needs therapy and support. She can't change him. She needs to put her own oxygen mask on, build herself up, and then decide what she is going to do. And a therapist can help her unravel some of his behavior. She will really, really need help with all the gaslighting she has endured. Big hugs to her.

I 100% agree with all of this. I have a father and mil who both fall into this category. There is ALWAYS a cloud of dysfunction and toxicity whenever they are involved. They literally don't care and will continue being toxic to the detriment of those who are stuck dealing with them. My dad, now 80 has always been a horrible person and the way he treated us, his family was unacceptable. He how has full blown Alzheimer's and due to his own spiteful and toxic personality has a buffet of chronic medical conditions which have come to a head. My mother, his #1 enabler is in denial. She is so broken that she has no sense of self. She tells us all the time that he, "won't listen," and we keep telling her that first of all he has NEVER listened and he is mentally unsound so she should be treating him like a e year old and she as the supposed sane adult should be making decisions. She keeps trying to defer to him! It's crazy!

Everyone around these people pays the price, the disordered person keeps acting the way they act because they know it will get them what they want so they have zero motivation to change and worse yet they lack self awareness and empathy...

If this was my friend, I'd tell her to get her affairs in order and get a good divorce lawyer and be prepared for a hard battle... but it is to protect her and her children from more damage by the disordered spouse.

[hellokitty]

Double post

[pinkmomagain]

I would be careful about armchair diagnosing and sending her to a support group without her going to therapy first. I think your advice for therapy for her is spot on.

That said, if she wants to do a little reading to see if/what resonates, there are two popular books she can look into.

https://www.amazon.com/Hate-You-Dont.../dp/0380713055
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-...84036895&psc=1

[vludmilla]

I would be careful about armchair diagnosing and sending her to a support group without her going to therapy first. I think your advice for therapy for her is spot on.

That said, if she wants to do a little reading to see if/what resonates, there are two popular books she can look into.

https://www.amazon.com/Hate-You-Dont.../dp/0380713055
https://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-...84036895&psc=1

Indeed, "armchair diagnosis" is to be avoided and my first recommendation was for the friend to get therapy for herself. But the support group recommendation is appropriate for anyone living with someone displaying significant levels of emotional dysregulation (unstable sense of self, unstable relationships, suicidality, etc). It is not strictly necessary that those who utilize that support group have a family member with diagnosed BPD.

[Globetrotter]

It is helpful to understand that these disorders even exist- my friend had no idea about personality disorders - and that there could be an explanation for the behavior, something that could even be treated, vs. he's an a-hole who is verbally abusing me.
I gave her all the links- thanks to all of you for the great suggestions!!! She is literally always "Walking on eggshells." I looked through them myself and see a lot of similarities to what she has experienced. I just hope he will agree to seek professional help to diagnose and treat whatever he has. For now, I hope she gets some help for herself- I gave some names of vetted therapists and a link to psychologytoday.com. I sensed some hesitation so I hope she goes through with it. She has been doing some research since I brought it up, and she thinks he exhibits most of the symptoms of BPD. Whatever he has, he is high functioning and most people wouldn't realize he has a problem. he is a good friend of my dh from college days, which is awkward, but I have become close to the wife.
Fortunately, though she hasn't worked in years, she has one young adult son and a sibling who are doing well financially - both are willing to support her if it comes to that and wants to leave him. CA law divides property equally. However, though she has hinted at it for a while now, that's a huge leap. She is thinking of giving an ultimatum that he seeks help or she will leave him, but that could be risky and he has threatened suicide before. I feel a therapist could help advise the best way to approach this. I told her she can come to my house and go upstairs and do her virtual therapy there, as her dh is around all the time nowadays due to covid (though that might change soon). There has been a lot of gaslighting. She constantly says things like, I made a mistake and told him XYZ. I pointed out that nothing she has done is out of the ordinary, but his reaction is.

[Globetrotter]

Her DH admitted to having a problem. This was a huge surprise because we didn’t think he would. She has told him that either he gets help or she will go to therapy alone. Neither has gone, but it’s a huge step. Right now he’s in the honeymoon phase, but the self-awareness is there. She said something really stuck with her, when I told her that none of this is normal. She told him the same for the first time. It’s just incredible to me that she wouldn’t realize that, but I guess this is what you call gaslighting. He has been doing a lot of self reflection, even verbalizing it to one of her friends. And she doesn’t want to go to therapy for now, so I suspect That will be triggered the next time it happens. At least I hope they follow through with it.

[gatorsmom]

Her DH admitted to having a problem. This was a huge surprise because we didn’t think he would. She has told him that either he gets help or she will go to therapy alone. Neither has gone, but it’s a huge step. Right now he’s in the honeymoon phase, but the self-awareness is there. She said something really stuck with her, when I told her that none of this is normal. She told him the same for the first time. It’s just incredible to me that she wouldn’t realize that, but I guess this is what you call gaslighting. He has been doing a lot of self reflection, even verbalizing it to one of her friends. And she doesn’t want to go to therapy for now, so I suspect That will be triggered the next time it happens. At least I hope they follow through with it.

Well, this sounds positive. If he actually believes that he has a problem, and would like to solve it, then they have a chance. Nobody ever wants to go to therapy and do the uncomfortable work, but it should be done as soon as possible. If they don't start therapy, and enough time passes, he could backtrack and deny that he ever agreed to it. Or that he has a problem. He might just gaslight her again that she misunderstood, or he never said that, etc. Also, I don't think it is helpful that he is discussing this with her friend unless the friend is a trained therapist. jmo

[gatorsmom]

Her DH admitted to having a problem. This was a huge surprise because we didn’t think he would. She has told him that either he gets help or she will go to therapy alone. Neither has gone, but it’s a huge step. Right now he’s in the honeymoon phase, but the self-awareness is there. She said something really stuck with her, when I told her that none of this is normal. She told him the same for the first time. It’s just incredible to me that she wouldn’t realize that, but I guess this is what you call gaslighting. He has been doing a lot of self reflection, even verbalizing it to one of her friends. And she doesn’t want to go to therapy for now, so I suspect That will be triggered the next time it happens. At least I hope they follow through with it.

Well, this sounds positive. If he actually believes that he has a problem, and would like to solve it, then they have a chance. Nobody ever wants to go to therapy and do the uncomfortable work, but it should be done as soon as possible. If they don't start therapy, and enough time passes, he could backtrack and deny that he ever agreed to it. Or that he has a problem. He might just gaslight her again that she misunderstood, or he never said that, etc. Also, I don't think it is helpful that he is discussing this with her friend unless the friend is a trained therapist. jmo

[Globetrotter]

Well, this sounds positive. If he actually believes that he has a problem, and would like to solve it, then they have a chance. Nobody ever wants to go to therapy and do the uncomfortable work, but it should be done as soon as possible. If they don't start therapy, and enough time passes, he could backtrack and deny that he ever agreed to it. Or that he has a problem. He might just gaslight her again that she misunderstood, or he never said that, etc. Also, I don't think it is helpful that he is discussing this with her friend unless the friend is a trained therapist. jmo

yes, I know.. it is frustrating watching it. I wish they would go now but even this is a step from where they started. He just told the friend he has a problem and is selfish, which was surprising for him to admit.