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  1. #11
    KpbS's Avatar
    KpbS is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    I don’t know what the idea was, but I know I agree with you. If you have some concerns whether they are safety concerns, concerns about interacting with another troop, concerns about how something like this activity perhaps a prank or joke would have gone over, all of those seem legit to me. I think you felt very strongly about this and it sounds like to me it was not a good idea. I would have no qualms about speaking with the leadership and telling them your perspective.
    K

  2. #12
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by echoesofspring View Post
    IMO it doesn't matter what the activity was and whether your concerns were justified, they disrespected you by laughing and dismissing your concerns. That's not how adults are supposed to behave, and not the kind of behavior I would expect leaders to model. The gender differs just makes it even ickier frankly, and w/out hearing more feels a little like gaslighting (classic sexist move to laugh and tell the woman she isn't making any sense). You may not be the leader but iiuc your a long time volunteer and from the perspective of the scouts are part of the leadership of the trip.
    . Yes, it felt like a sexist gaslighting move to me at the time too. Thank you for your support. There was no willingness to discuss or listen to my reasons and offer a rational explanation for their insistence. Let’s just ignore the crazy lady and rally the troops. Except the girls sided with me, which is why it didn’t happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by echoesofspring View Post
    I think before you talk to the council member you need to know what you want the resolution to be. If you think this leader has a continued history of poor judgement, what do you want to happen? Do you want the council leader to talk to them, do you want them to be replaced, etc. If you don't have a clear idea of what you would like to see happen, you may come off as 'that parent who's always unhappy' vs. someone raising legit concerns about how the troop is being led.
    This is a good point. And unfortunately I suspect the council member’s suggestion to fix the problems will be for me to become troop leader next year. And unfortunately, I’m already leading my DD’s crafting/church group. I’m the only parent organizer so I do everything. I can’t also lead the bsa troop right now.
    "People are made for happiness. Rightly then, you thirst for happiness. Christ has the answer to this desire of yours. But he asks you to trust him." -St. John Paul II

  3. #13
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    KpbS is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    I can’t stand the fact that he laughed at you and your concerns because you were opposed to the idea. It’s really dismissive and disrespectful.
    K

  4. #14
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by KpbS View Post
    I don’t know what the idea was, but I know I agree with you. If you have some concerns whether they are safety concerns, concerns about interacting with another troop, concerns about how something like this activity perhaps a prank or joke would have gone over, all of those seem legit to me. I think you felt very strongly about this and it sounds like to me it was not a good idea. I would have no qualms about speaking with the leadership and telling them your perspective.
    I don’t have much time now to explain what happened but it was a prank they were planning after dark on a boys’ troop. There would have been no way to warn the boys’ troop leaders. And it was inappropriately sexual.
    "People are made for happiness. Rightly then, you thirst for happiness. Christ has the answer to this desire of yours. But he asks you to trust him." -St. John Paul II

  5. #15
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    KpbS is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorsmom View Post
    I don’t have much time now to explain what happened but it was a prank they were planning after dark on a boys’ troop. There would have been no way to warn the boys’ troop leaders. And it was inappropriately sexual.
    I thought I had read between the lines and you might be referring to a prank. Good for you refusing and insisting your DD refuse as well.
    K

  6. #16
    o_mom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorsmom View Post
    I don’t have much time now to explain what happened but it was a prank they were planning after dark on a boys’ troop. There would have been no way to warn the boys’ troop leaders. And it was inappropriately sexual.

    OK. Absolutely wrong, full stop.

    I would probably start with my district executive or other professional scouter from council. Make it clear that there are really three issues.

    (1) An inappropriate activity was being proposed by an adult leader, and agreed to by the other leader - these leaders to be re-trained, probably in person by a council staffer, on appropriate activities.

    (2) When another parent/leader expressed concern, they dismissed it instead of considering it and seeking clarity from the professional staff if there was a difference of opinion. - These two leaders need additional training on their responsibilities, the resources available, and the appropriate way to address concerns about activities.

    (3) They were rude and dismissive of you, and did so in front of the scouts. - A strong statement on how it is never appropriate to laugh at others or say they don't make sense. This is bullying, regardless of gender. It sets a very bad example and should not be tolerated.
    Mama to three boys ('03, '05, '07)

  7. #17
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by o_mom View Post
    OK. Absolutely wrong, full stop.

    I would probably start with my district executive or other professional scouter from council. Make it clear that there are really three issues.

    (1) An inappropriate activity was being proposed by an adult leader, and agreed to by the other leader - these leaders to be re-trained, probably in person by a council staffer, on appropriate activities.

    (2) When another parent/leader expressed concern, they dismissed it instead of considering it and seeking clarity from the professional staff if there was a difference of opinion. - These two leaders need additional training on their responsibilities, the resources available, and the appropriate way to address concerns about activities.

    (3) They were rude and dismissive of you, and did so in front of the scouts. - A strong statement on how it is never appropriate to laugh at others or say they don't make sense. This is bullying, regardless of gender. It sets a very bad example and should not be tolerated.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is exactly what I’m going to do.
    "People are made for happiness. Rightly then, you thirst for happiness. Christ has the answer to this desire of yours. But he asks you to trust him." -St. John Paul II

  8. #18
    Dayzy is offline Silver level (200+ posts)
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    I would start by asking to address the committee and make sure the COR is available to attend. I would also go through the guide to safe scouting and the YPT materials available to have documentation on why some of the ideas the leader has are bad ones and go against the BSA rules. Are you a registered ASM or is there a female ASM who will have your back on this?

  9. #19
    Kindra178 is online now Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    I’m not really a “prank” kind of person so any activity involving a prank is not for me. Pranks make certain people feel uncomfortable, so I don’t find them funny. I would have stopped it, or attempted to, like you did. Just so we are clear, an adult sponsored prank is worse than one thought up by the young teens.

    And I’m sorry this happened. These troop leaders are terrible. I’m still mad about your injury.


    Sent from my iPhone using Baby Bargains

  10. #20
    Percycat is offline Platinum level (1000+ posts)
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    I would also point out how the activity was not consistent with the BS oath and law. I lead Girl Scouts (and was a minimally active volunteer with my son's BSA programs)... when the girls were younger, as a group we would identify how various activities we were doing were consistent with the GS law.... we still refer to the law whenever we have to address issues. Since my girls were little, we have instilled a belief that we want our troop to be an example that other troops want to follow. I would think this to be particularly true for a girl BSA troop, since the girls are trailblazers in the BSA program. A prank on another troop would not be consistent with the BSA law. If it was at camp, it would probably also be inconsistent with LNT. And, in no way encourages the girls to be leader examples to other scouts.

    The fact that the prank was somewhat sexual makes it eaven worse and could provide fodder to any who questioned whether girls should be in BSA.

    Omon gave great advice. I hope the adult volunteers for this troop can work through and become better role models for the girls. Thanks for supporting your daughter's scouting experience!

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