Would like your thoughts about this…

[gatorsmom]

Update- I just wanted to post a disappointing update and ask for prayers and PT. I decided to keep the discussion of this matter inside our troop unless I needed to escalate it. I had asked 2 parents that I know in the boys’ troop if they thought I was overreacting and they both were livid something like that nearly happened. After talking to them and reassuring them it wouldn’t ever happen, I met with the other troop leaders.

The discussions did not go well. All of the troop leaders except for one, thought I was overreacting. They wouldn’t even admit it was a bad idea. I was really surprised. When I tried to get some reassurance that a rule specific to our troop would prevent something like this from happening in the future, they resisted. Nothing reassuring came out of this. Instead, they mentioned that because I asked the other troops’ parents their opinion, they now needed to do damage control (although, I’m not sure what kind of damage control they plan to do without promising it won’t happen again). I pointed out that they would have a LOT more damage control to do if I hadn’t stopped the prank from happening. One member agreed the prank was a bad idea.

Instead they thought I should become safety coordinator since I’m the one that is concerned with following rules and keeping members safe. When toward the end of the meeting I sort of tried out my new role by offering thoughts and concerns about a project they want to do, I was sort of told that my concerns weren’t a big deal. They really didn’t want to hear from me. The project they are proposing is for the 11 scouts to have a 3-5 hour babysitting drop off for parents to go Christmas shopping. The girls are newly trained in babysitting. They want the kids to babysit in the school gym. They don’t want to listen to concerns about diapering, how to keep kids busy, how to keep babies and toddlers safe in the gym. They don’t want to discuss the upfront details. They just want to push ahead and say, “it’ll be fine. We will roll with it.” Since concerns weren’t being heard, I saw this as an indicator that I wouldn’t be heard in the future.

For that and other reasons today I resigned from DD’s troop’s Leadership Committee. I am often very detail-focused and that serves me very well as a volunteer for other activities. There are plenty of activities that aren’t agonizing for me where my participation is appreciated. Dh and I have decided that if we can’t find a different bsa troop that is better organized, we will simply attend the meetings and functions that can help dd with her advancement while avoiding the potential disasters. Thank God he and I are in agreement that this troop is badly managed and an accident waiting to happen. He sees it too. It really helps when you aren’t the only person standing alone against an angry group. And thank you for the advice and support here. The last 2 weeks of discussions about this with the other troop leaders had been miserable. Being the whistleblower sucks.


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Last night, my daughter’s bsa scout troop was camping at local camp ground with some other troops. An adult male who helps our troop and my boys’ troop with certain difficult merit badges was there helping us and stayed for dinner. He came up with an idea for an activity to do on the spot and our troop leader agreed it sounded like a fun idea. They’d started to get the girls excited and planning to do their idea. I whole-heartedly disagreed with this idea and told them so with one other parent listening as well as all the girls. The male volunteer and our Troop leader said I wasn’t making any sense. Why wasn’t their idea a good one? So I explained it again. In front of the girls they laughed at me and said I still wasn’t making any sense. The male volunteer said, “come on girls, let’s go do this thing.” I told my daughter, “you aren’t going.” She agreed with me and her close friend also said she would listen to me. Dd and her friend then convinced the rest of their troop not to go. The adult volunteer ended up with no girls willing to join him.

I am not happy with how these 2 men laughed at me and ignored my concerns in front of our all-girl troop. This morning I contacted the council member who founded our troop and let her know what happened. She asked me if we could speak tomorrow. Of course I will be happy to talk to her because this little stunt they wanted to pull could get parents from other troops angry with ours. She doesn’t want that to happen. But she also wants to support this troop leader through thick and thin because no one else volunteered to be our troop’s leader. Me and the other mom who are volunteer parents are already stretched too thin to take over leading the troop. The council member also loves that this troop leader is a former Eagle Scout who has a lot of the gear our troop needs and is willing to share it with the troop. He tries hard to be a good leader and is generally a kind person but really has made a lot of very poor decisions over the last 18 months (pushing for our troop to sleep all in the same tent last fall, pushing for our 11-12yo girls to sleep outside in January in Wisconsin a half mile from the nearest warm building, etc.).

What would you say to the council member about how to handle this? I tend to be the parent that complains out loud when I disagree with something (especially since the made a poor decision last year on a camping trip that lead to me braking my ankle). They don’t like me questioning their plans even when I have strong reasons for my questions. So I could see this discussion ending up being about me. How do I prepare for this?

I’ve wanted to pull my dd and join another troop but she loves her scout friends. They really are a great group of girls. The problem are the troop leaders. All your thoughts are welcome but please be kind- it’s been a tough weekend for me. TIA!

[SnuggleBuggles]

It’s too hard to answer this because there’s a chance it was a fine idea and you were overreacting.
Do you have to go on scout outings if you have a contentious relationship? I strongly dislike one of our troop leaders so dh handles scouts.
Could you have pulled them aside bs questioning them in front of everyone? That has to put them on the defensive- and some people react inappropriately when put on the spot, like laughing.
I would explain to your dd why switching troops make sense though and just go in that direction if you have to be involved.


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[gatorsmom]

It’s too hard to answer this because there’s a chance it was a fine idea and you were overreacting.
Do you have to go on scout outings if you have a contentious relationship? I strongly dislike one of our troop leaders so dh handles scouts.
Could you have pulled them aside bs questioning them in front of everyone? That has to put them on the defensive- and some people react inappropriately when put on the spot, like laughing.
I would explain to your dd why switching troops make sense though and just go in that direction if you have to be involved.


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All good points. If they weren’t planning to do the activity right that moment, I would have pulled them aside. But there wasn’t time to pull them aside. It doesn’t help that most of us didn’t get great sleep the night before.

Its possible the idea was fine. It’s also possible it could get us into trouble. But the fact that the 2 men laughed at me, weren’t willing to discuss the matter and in front of the girls disregarded me, really disappoints me. It’s a troop for girls. Are only the men worth listening to? Well THANK GOD we have a male leader then!!!

I’m not making dd leave this troop. These are her friends. As we know from Melanie’s recent email, it’s important for kids to have friends in many different groups in case something goes south with one group of friends. The girls in this troop are not the problem.

[SnuggleBuggles]

All good points. If they weren’t planning to do the activity right that moment, I would have pulled them aside. But there wasn’t time to pull them aside. It doesn’t help that most of us didn’t get great sleep the night before.

Its possible the idea was fine. It’s also possible it could get us into trouble. But the fact that the 2 men laughed at me, weren’t willing to discuss the matter and in front of the girls disregarded me, really disappoints me. It’s a troop for girls. Are only the men worth listening to? Well THANK GOD we have a male leader then!!!

I’m not making dd leave this troop. These are her friends. As we know from Melanie’s recent email, it’s important for kids to have friends in many different groups in case something goes south with one group of friends. The girls in this troop are not the problem.

I get that the girls aren’t the problem. And I agree that it’s great to have different pockets of friends. But, if your hackles are going to be up every time there is a scout thing, is that really good for dd? Whether you are totally in the right doesn’t matter if it’s just going to be miserable for you to participate. There are other troops. She will make more friends. She can still hang out with this group. Invite them over, keep the friendships going. It just sounds miserable and life is too short for that.


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[Snow mom]

I also really need to know what the idea was for context to judge what happened. In order for it to have been appropriate for you to basically do a power grab where you completely stopped an activity that the girls were apparently going to go along with I feel like it needs to have been something pretty dangerous/extremely poor judgement. What is your role in the troop? Is gender involved (so something about it being a mans idea/a troop of young women)? How old is your DD and what is her rank? The further she is into scouts the less I’d want to switch troops. But honestly you may have painted yourself into a corner where that becomes your best option.

[AnnieW625]

I can’t comment without knowing what the activity was.


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[o_mom]

I also really need to know what the idea was for context to judge what happened. In order for it to have been appropriate for you to basically do a power grab where you completely stopped an activity that the girls were apparently going to go along with I feel like it needs to have been something pretty dangerous/extremely poor judgement.

Yes. I would need more details. Was the activity a violation of the Guide to Safe Scouting?

I agree that the discussion in front of the scouts, and laughing at you were inappropriate. I think that this is what you need to focus on, not that you were right about this being a bad idea unless it is a clear violation.

I think that in general, the adult objections and discussion should have occured away from the scouts. We often have things that come up , plans change, the scouts get a wild hair, etc. We have no problem stepping away and discussing - does this violates any rules, can we safely do this, etc. If we think it can be done, typically we would then bring the SPL into the conversation to discuss what needs to be done for it to happen safely.

[echoesofspring]

IMO it doesn't matter what the activity was and whether your concerns were justified, they disrespected you by laughing and dismissing your concerns. That's not how adults are supposed to behave, and not the kind of behavior I would expect leaders to model. The gender differs just makes it even ickier frankly, and w/out hearing more feels a little like gaslighting (classic sexist move to laugh and tell the woman she isn't making any sense). You may not be the leader but iiuc your a long time volunteer and from the perspective of the scouts are part of the leadership of the trip.

[echoesofspring]

What would you say to the council member about how to handle this? I tend to be the parent that complains out loud when I disagree with something (especially since the made a poor decision last year on a camping trip that lead to me braking my ankle). They don’t like me questioning their plans even when I have strong reasons for my questions. So I could see this discussion ending up being about me. How do I prepare for this?

I think before you talk to the council member you need to know what you want the resolution to be. If you think this leader has a continued history of poor judgement, what do you want to happen? Do you want the council leader to talk to them, do you want them to be replaced, etc. If you don't have a clear idea of what you would like to see happen, you may come off as 'that parent who's always unhappy' vs. someone raising legit concerns about how the troop is being led.

[KpbS]

I don’t know what the idea was, but I know I agree with you. If you have some concerns whether they are safety concerns, concerns about interacting with another troop, concerns about how something like this activity perhaps a prank or joke would have gone over, all of those seem legit to me. I think you felt very strongly about this and it sounds like to me it was not a good idea. I would have no qualms about speaking with the leadership and telling them your perspective.