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  1. #21
    bisous is offline Red Diamond level (10,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kindra178 View Post
    I’m not really a “prank” kind of person so any activity involving a prank is not for me. Pranks make certain people feel uncomfortable, so I don’t find them funny. I would have stopped it, or attempted to, like you did. Just so we are clear, an adult sponsored prank is worse than one thought up by the young teens.

    And I’m sorry this happened. These troop leaders are terrible. I’m still mad about your injury.


    Sent from my iPhone using Baby Bargains
    This.

    I can't articulate it but I can't help feeling like I hope the council sees what you did here and commends you for it. This was a near miss in what could have been quite a scandal/negative experience not only for the girls involved but also for the organization that already has a bit of a tarnish around it lately. And I'm a fan of the BSA. I'm on our troop's board and two of my boys are involved in scouts!

    It is clear to me that more training is needed and maybe better safeguards to the processes that keep scouts safe. Thank goodness you spoke up but also thank goodness you were able to convince the girls. That takes moral courage and also competency.

    Also, (hopefully I'm reading this incorrectly) it was men who were trying to convince girls to do something sexual to boys? That seems really off. I hope I'm just missing context. I just feel disappointed because I like that girls are in scouting now but this seems like such a corruption of what scouting should be for them. A setback in our quest to promote real equality and respect. And like Percycat said, totally in violation of the oath and law.

  2. #22
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Update in op.
    " I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." Mahatma Gandhi

    "This is the ultimate weakness of violence: It multiplies evil and violence in the universe. It doesn't solve any problems." Martin Luther King, Jr.

  3. #23
    o_mom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this. Please elevate this to your district and council leadership.

  4. #24
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by o_mom View Post
    I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this. Please elevate this to your district and council leadership.
    Thank you for all your input. It’s really been helpful. I don’t want to fight this anymore. I’ve been so surprised by the behavior of the leaders in this troop and their defensive attitude toward their reckless pursuit of fun above all else. They actually defended their deduction to take a scout who couldn’t swim on a canoe trip. They said it was fine because she passed basics swimmers lessons and her parents signed off on it. Then they attacked me by asking if I got certified to go on the canoe trip. Dh and I have had enough. We will keep dd safe and watch them implode.

    The only thing I might still do is tell the rest of the troop parents what almost happened with the prank. Because letting them do damage control and cover that up seems wrong to me.
    Last edited by gatorsmom; 11-04-2021 at 07:46 AM.
    " I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." Mahatma Gandhi

    "This is the ultimate weakness of violence: It multiplies evil and violence in the universe. It doesn't solve any problems." Martin Luther King, Jr.

  5. #25
    chlobo is offline Diamond level (5000+ posts)
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    I agree with your assessment of the leadership. No good is going to come of these leaders not being open to listen to reason. Unfortunately, I don't think your experience is uncommon. While I haven't heard anything as egregious from our local troop it is a lot like "Lord of the Flies" in terms of how stuff works. I hope you find a more fulfilling role for your energy.

  6. #26
    Melaine is offline Blue Diamond level (20,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by gatorsmom View Post
    Thank you for all your input. It’s really been helpful. I don’t want to fight this anymore. I’ve been so surprised by the behavior of the leaders in this troop and their defensive attitude toward their reckless pursuit of fun above all else. They actually defended their deduction to take a scout who couldn’t swim on a canoe trip. They said it was fine because she passed basics swimmers lessons and her parents signed off on it. Then they attacked me by asking if I got certified to go on the canoe trip. Dh and I have had enough. We will keep dd safe and watch them implode.

    The only thing I might still do is tell the rest of the troop parents what almost happened with the prank. Because letting them do damage control and cover that up seems wrong to me.
    Oh my gosh, what a freaking nightmare! The pursuit of fun above all else seems like a perfect summary. I wouldn't want my kids around these leaders at all.

  7. #27
    amyx4 is offline Copper level (50+ posts)
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    I agree with your camping event being crazy. And I don't want to come across as supporting your Troop leaders about the canoe trip. But there's a weird thing in Scouting that a Scout can go on a canoe trip even if they don't swim well. The third paragraph basically says that a non-swimmer can ride in the canoe.


    Swimming Ability
    Operation of any boat on a float trip is limited to youth and adults who have completed the BSA swimmer classification test. Swimmers must complete the following test, which must be administered annually.

    Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth. Level off and swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be completed in one swim without stops and must include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating.

    For activity afloat, those not classified as a swimmer are limited to multiperson craft during outings or float trips on calm water with little likelihood of capsizing or falling overboard. They may operate a fixed-seat rowboat or pedal boat accompanied by a buddy who is a swimmer. They may paddle or ride in a canoe or other paddle craft with an adult swimmer skilled in that craft as a buddy. They may ride as part of a group on a motorboat or sailboat operated by a skilled adult.

  8. #28
    amyx4 is offline Copper level (50+ posts)
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    What happens in our Troop, in the spring the Troop goes to the high school pool. Everyone gets in the water and practices the swim test (listed above.) Then I walk around talking to the parents about local swim lesson. Because every parent says, "My kids can swim." Trust me. I've been doing this for years. It's amazing the parents that vastly under estimate their child's ability to swim.

    So, then I tell them that it's important to pass the test because at (expensive) summer camp they won't be able to participate in any of the waterfront activities at camp. Then the leaders, that go to camp, basically peer pressure all the new/younger Scouts into taking the Swimming Merit Badge (which is much more rigorous than the swim test.)

    Finally, the Troop's canoe trip is schedule in late summer or early fall. By then, we hope that most parents got the message about swimming. But if a parent know the guidelines (posted above) leaders cannot really do much

  9. #29
    gatorsmom is offline Pink Diamond level (15,000+ posts)
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    Quote Originally Posted by amyx4 View Post
    What happens in our Troop, in the spring the Troop goes to the high school pool. Everyone gets in the water and practices the swim test (listed above.) Then I walk around talking to the parents about local swim lesson. Because every parent says, "My kids can swim." Trust me. I've been doing this for years. It's amazing the parents that vastly under estimate their child's ability to swim.

    So, then I tell them that it's important to pass the test because at (expensive) summer camp they won't be able to participate in any of the waterfront activities at camp. Then the leaders, that go to camp, basically peer pressure all the new/younger Scouts into taking the Swimming Merit Badge (which is much more rigorous than the swim test.)

    Finally, the Troop's canoe trip is schedule in late summer or early fall. By then, we hope that most parents got the message about swimming. But if a parent know the guidelines (posted above) leaders cannot really do much
    This is all good to know. It sounds like your troop handles this in a very rational way. I wish you lived closer to us. . About the bolded part, when you say the leaders can’t do much, do you mean the kids would be allowed to attend the canoe trip, even without the swimmers’ certification as long as the parent signed off? Just trying to get more info.

    I will say, it feels wonderful not being part of that group of crazy (the leadership committee). Dh took dd to her troop meeting last night and it was fine. They will do what they do and we will stay away from the poorly planned stuff. Our second oldest is close to starting his Eagle project which frees Dh and I up to attend more meetings and supervise more events. Eventually we might even be Scoutmasters! And then things will definitely run differently.
    " I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." Mahatma Gandhi

    "This is the ultimate weakness of violence: It multiplies evil and violence in the universe. It doesn't solve any problems." Martin Luther King, Jr.

  10. #30
    amyx4 is offline Copper level (50+ posts)
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    I don't understand what your Troop means "by signing off"? The non-swimmers would sign the same permission slip as the entire Troop.

    The non-swimmers are told they can ride in the canoe but not paddle by our leaders.

    However, the guidelines above say a non-swimmer can paddle. The leaders try really had to keep the non-swimmer from paddling. But if a parent knows the guidelines.....they can insist their non-swimmer gets to paddle.

    BTW Our Troop has "Lord of the Flies" moments too. The Scouts pool the collected money, the older teens go grocery shopping and then they all do the cooking on camping trips. Oh my....I try so had to ignore it
    Last edited by amyx4; 11-08-2021 at 10:56 AM.

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