Helping DD (3rd grade)

[essnce629]

At this point I would pull her as well, but possibly not until next school year if she's fine with waiting out the next few months. Many schools which were good fits pre-pandemic just didn't make it through very well and may longer be the right fit. We are experiencing this with DS2 right now and have decided to enroll him in private school next year for 8th grade, even though he's been at his current school since kindergarten and it was a great fit pre-pandemic and for DS1 who attended for 3rd-8th grade. We thought we could hang on till high school, but we realized that it was unfair for DS2 to spend another year and a half unhappy when he has already been through so much over the past 2 years. He's sad to leave all his friends, but when he was accepted into the private school last week he said it was a "relief." Maybe take a few school tours with your DD.

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[jgenie]

I would pull her now too. If you can get her settled in a new school now, she can spend the summer getting to know her new friends. I’m sorry she’s going through this.

[acmom]

That sounds really hard. I think if it were my DD, I would start by talking to her about the possibility of switching and get her input on whether she wants to pursue that right now or next year (or if she is opposed to switching). I would then try to make a list of things you/she would be looking for in a new school environment and tour a couple schools that would be options.

I agree with PPs that 31 is a big class and it's going to be hard for the teacher to do a great job differentiating instruction or providing extra challenges in a class that big. May also be hard for teacher to have an ear on all possible social-emotional issues happening, as that is a lot of kids and relationships to manage.

My DD struggles with anxiety (probably since about the age of your DD as we look back on it). It cycles a bit - she has long periods of time that she is doing really well and it isn't posing an issue and other times that it really crops up and causes day to day struggles for her. The pandemic definitely has not helped and she has hard a hard time with it this winter. DD has migraines that started about that age too. Dr. thought hormones and stress were both key triggers for her (among a couple other). So maybe some of your DD's physical symptoms are possibly hormone and/or anxiety related too? We did finally find a therapist who is a good fit, which has helped her feel more in control of it and given her concrete strategies to try. Maybe a therapist and/or school counselor could help your DD sort some of it out and give her some coping strategies, regardless of the school change or not?

With my DD, the moving of schools might increase her anxiety at least initially. She is a very social kid, like you mentioned your daughter is - she makes friends easily so would be fine that way, but she is also quite invested in and tied to her current friends, so that piece might be hard for my DD. But the stress/dislike of the school situation might outweigh that, so I would just have that conversation with your DD. Good luck!

[hbridge]

I responded with a PM earlier today. However, after reading the other replies, please know that there ARE ways to pull a child from school at a moment's notice. We have done it, technically twice, but once it was literally a mid-day dismissal where we, took the child out of school and they never went back. PM me if you need information on how to do this...

[echoesofspring]

Thank you everyone. I don't think we need to pull her out immediately, it's hard to tell if she's distressed daily - today she got all into getting dressed up for St. P. day and was working on her afternoon homework in the car, that's her natural happy creative state that I'd just like to get back too - excited for school and thinks her homework is fun. But I am going to try and find someone outside of school for her to talk to and see what assessments they might recommend pursuing. I could ask about the guidance counselor but it was a fail last year and idk, I feel like she might be more honest with someone not associated with the school/she doesn't feel she has to please with her answers. We told her last night we're going to talk to her teacher and also look at other schools so hopefully that feels reassuring to her/we want to make it better for her.

We have a mtg scheduled with her teacher for tomorrow to discuss if there are any options at the school/what she's seeing, etc. and will take it from there. I don't think there are I know they really try to keep kids in the program for the whole time so I assume if we pursue an interdistrict transfer we'll have to have these mtgs so starting now. The principal knows DD from preschool and TK at another campus so I'm hoping we can have a good convo with her. I'll aslo see if we can get an appt with the guidance counselor beyond just having her observed in class.

I had a good convo with my friend who subbed there last year and has had 1 child go through the program and another who's a year ahead of DD. She gave me some ideas of resources to ask about but also told me the academic differences she had mentioned earlier didn't really apply to DD so that was reassuring, if she transfers she won't be behind. She also said both her children hated reading in Spanish once they could read in English so I have to tease out how much her protest around Spanish is normal and how much is something bigger that needs addressing. DH and I talked a lot this morning about our own experiences when we are receptive to learning but have maybe hit a plateau we need to push through vs. when we're frustrated and closed off and what we think is going on with her (we think it's the latter).

What was the reasoning behind putting her in immersion program school when both of you don’t speak Spanish? Does that mean the entire teaching is in Spanish?

90% immersion in K (except for English class) and then reduced each year. The school is attempting to ensure the kids coming in who don't speak English can pass their English proficiency when they enter middle school, while also providing an Spanish immersion experience to English speakers, the classes are generally even split between English and Spanish speakers. So it's not like she's surrounded by people speaking a different language all day, her friends are a mix whether they speak Spanish at home. The immersion is supposed to be around 70% Spanish by 3rd, but my friend said it's more like 50% this year, so she's not even getting as much Spanish as she would be in precovid times. Still none of that matters if her brain has flipped over to being resistant to learning it instead of receptive. Historically it's been a very competitive and beloved program in the district. That's part of the problem I think, it's a victim of it's own success and the previous admin let in too many kids around the time DD started. The campus was built for 4XX kids, and currently has 6XX. (although we'll potentially have to deal with 31 kids at any public school, as PP said, that's not unique to this school).

[Liziz]

These situations are so hard! If this were my DD, I would not immediately pull her. From everything you said, it doesn't seem 100% clear what exactly is causing your DD's unhappiness/anxiety. There are pros and cons to any switch, and if I was going to put my DC through the stress of switching schools (especially mid-year) I'd want to make sure we were moving to an environment that is actually going to reduce those issues.

My DD had a rough year one year because she didn't have a great teacher, and she had a pretty rough classroom with some challenging kids. The teacher was sweet and caring, but it was a bad fit. During that year she repeatedly expressed how much she hated the school, blamed it on the school, wanted a different school, etc. It didn't make the school she was in bad -- it was just a rough year. The following year, she had an *amazing* teacher, and it turned everything around completely.

Of course, in your DD's issue the problem may absolutely be the school, I'm not saying that moving her isn't the best choice! If she will do better somewhere else, then absolutely, move her! It won't be the end of the world if she doesn't learn Spanish while she's young, and what she's already learned will benefit her no matter whether she learns more or not. I'm just advocating for a thoughtful and careful decision and weighing of pros and cons. There's several things (class size, infrastructure, etc.) that sound negative at the current school -- but if that's the norm in your area and moving schools won't necessarily change that, it might not be a magic fix, either.

[California]

Zoom instruction was especially disruptive for immersion programs. You may already know this but in case it helps give some insight into what your DD may be going through: In Kindergarten, most students are soaking the language in and starting to think in Spanish, but aren't yet confident in speaking it themselves. In first and second that confidence goes up and teachers (at least in my district) really push students to speak in Spanish in class. Writing by hand supports their memorization of Spanish words, which makes reading easier. Being surrounded by Spanish text in the classroom helps with writing, too. It all goes together. With the move to zoom in first grade, your DD and her fellow students missed out on months of that rich classroom environment. So much conversation got lost on Zoom. Typing doesn't help with memorization as much as hand writing does. So what ended up happening, from what I'm seeing, is that kids aren't as fluent in Spanish as they would have been. They have to think harder- it literally takes more energy than it does for them to use English. In a typical year English speakers will normally prefer books written in English. But this year, resistance to reading in Spanish has been so much more pronounced. Grade level books in Spanish just aren't flowing for them. Writing in English is more of a struggle too- I've got 4th and 5th graders who still write in big messy letters like 2nd graders. Student stamina is down. We're seeing more behavior issues than usual. (A LOT more behavioral issues.) Everyone is tired by the end of the day.

At our school we're finding that getting away from computers, movement breaks ("brain breaks"), art, and extra time on the playground helps. We know that nature breaks are good for kids and are taking them out more to the grass lawns and to our classroom gardens (this is the closest to nature that we have.) We've started homework clubs. We're encouraging kids to listen to audio books at home in lieu of reading and to get more exercise. I'm not sure how much all this is helping. There are no easy solutions.

With 31 kids, it'd be challenging for your DD's teacher to provide differentiated instruction to meet the kids at their levels. (But not impossible.) It sounds like your DD is doing fine academically. Other students may be farther behind and the work may be adjusted to meet their needs. From the teacher, I'd want to get an idea of the overall feel of the classroom. Are the transitions hard on your DD? The downtown after she's finished an assignment? The times the teacher has to address student behavior? You might be able to go in and observe this for yourself. Ask her for ideas on supporting Spanish at home that will feel fun for your DD- movies in Spanish, graphic novels in Spanish, downloaded audio books for car rides, music in Spanish, rewards for completing extra Spanish work, etc. If DD is completing work early, maybe she could be partnered up with another student who needs some extra assistance? That's pretty standard and can be great for both kids. Well I've written a novel! Can you tell this is the population I work with everyday? :-)!

[echoesofspring]

Zoom instruction was especially disruptive for immersion programs. You may already know this but in case it helps give some insight into what your DD may be going through: In Kindergarten, most students are soaking the language in and starting to think in Spanish, but aren't yet confident in speaking it themselves. In first and second that confidence goes up and teachers (at least in my district) really push students to speak in Spanish in class. Writing by hand supports their memorization of Spanish words, which makes reading easier. Being surrounded by Spanish text in the classroom helps with writing, too. It all goes together. With the move to zoom in first grade, your DD and her fellow students missed out on months of that rich classroom environment. So much conversation got lost on Zoom. Typing doesn't help with memorization as much as hand writing does. So what ended up happening, from what I'm seeing, is that kids aren't as fluent in Spanish as they would have been. They have to think harder- it literally takes more energy than it does for them to use English. In a typical year English speakers will normally prefer books written in English. But this year, resistance to reading in Spanish has been so much more pronounced. Grade level books in Spanish just aren't flowing for them. Writing in English is more of a struggle too- I've got 4th and 5th graders who still write in big messy letters like 2nd graders. Student stamina is down. We're seeing more behavior issues than usual. (A LOT more behavioral issues.) Everyone is tired by the end of the day.

At our school we're finding that getting away from computers, movement breaks ("brain breaks"), art, and extra time on the playground helps. We know that nature breaks are good for kids and are taking them out more to the grass lawns and to our classroom gardens (this is the closest to nature that we have.) We've started homework clubs. We're encouraging kids to listen to audio books at home in lieu of reading and to get more exercise. I'm not sure how much all this is helping. There are no easy solutions.

With 31 kids, it'd be challenging for your DD's teacher to provide differentiated instruction to meet the kids at their levels. (But not impossible.) It sounds like your DD is doing fine academically. Other students may be farther behind and the work may be adjusted to meet their needs. From the teacher, I'd want to get an idea of the overall feel of the classroom. Are the transitions hard on your DD? The downtown after she's finished an assignment? The times the teacher has to address student behavior? You might be able to go in and observe this for yourself. Ask her for ideas on supporting Spanish at home that will feel fun for your DD- movies in Spanish, graphic novels in Spanish, downloaded audio books for car rides, music in Spanish, rewards for completing extra Spanish work, etc. If DD is completing work early, maybe she could be partnered up with another student who needs some extra assistance? That's pretty standard and can be great for both kids. Well I've written a novel! Can you tell this is the population I work with everyday? :-)!

Thank you for all this context, it's validates what I've seen with her and helps me prepare for our mtg this afternoon.
Can you tell me more about how the home work clubs work? Is that something the schools organize or volunteers, etc. ? I was just wondering yesterday if she would be happier if we could get her working with a friend on her homework, etc.

[California]

Homework clubs (we have two) run for an hour afterschool and are supervised by teachers (one per club, paid at tutoring rates.) One teacher has older kids work with younger kids, and that by far has been the most popular. For equity we started a volunteer-run zoom evening hour for students who are bussed and can't attend homework club. It was dropped due to very low participation.