College admissions

[daisy13]

Hi all
My daughter is in 8th grade this year in a competitive public school district in bay area Ca. She wants to pursue law /public policy eventually. DH and I are both immigrant engineers who grew up in Asia . We have no experience in the college admissions process and more so because of her interest (non - STEM).
All around us, because of demographics in her school and our area in general, we find kids focusing on STEM and doing STEM related activities.

1) Any experience that anyone has on how to guide her?
2) How important is taking the most rigorous math courses in HS, esp for her area of interest? She is in an accelerated tack in her middle school right now . She just finished Algebra 1. She can either stay in the same accelerated track and take Geometry in 9th grade or double accelerate to take Geo/ Alg2 / Pre calc class in 9th grade. We want her to take in the single accelerated track as she will be taking Science Honors and English Honors class in 9th. This way she will have time to do all the clubs activities she wants to do ( Speech&debate, water polo etc).She wants to do the double accelerated track - because all her friends are in it and she doesn't want to be "behind"her peers.
3) When do you start college counsellor engagement? I have been reading up a lot on the process since its all new to us. We do have a few intro calls scheduled with a few people.
4) This is a tangent- but she started getting involved with our local 4H chapter last year. Anyone with experience in this? We are clueless as to what areas/ activities she should be involved in and where she will get the most ROI? I know that this should be based on her interest- but with school and other classes, time is limited and we would like to guide her.

TIA

[smilequeen]

I don’t have experience with her particular path, but I do have a non stem (Business/Economics) kid. Being on that basic accelerated math path in HS was fine for him. He was good at math, but didn’t love it. He got through Calculus in HS (and chose not to take the AP Calc because the teacher was a really bad fit for him) and business school math in college has been a breeze for him. I probably wouldn’t double up on math for a non stem kid on track to get to Calculus, but I can understand where she’s coming from and if she’s strong in math, it certainly wouldn’t hurt. I’d probably have her focus on taking challenging classes in History and English and if she can take any electives related to her interests (mine did Intro to business, International business, and accounting in HS). I’d also have her do mock trial or model UN, etc. if she enjoys that stuff (assuming she does given her career interests…my son’s girlfriend in HS was interested in similar and that’s what she did). I’d probably also try to take as much foreign language as she can. That’s just what I can think of from a mom of zero children interested in Engineering. My middle might be interested in dental school…which I suppose is STEM but not in the way most people consider it these days.

Our school starts with meeting the college counselors seriously during sophomore year and then meeting more often with them as juniors and a lot early in senior year.

[mom2binsd]

I'm assuming given your location that there are so many parents who are already paying for college admission counselors, which for a student in 8th grade is not necessary.

It sounds like she is taking a fairly challenging course load. The school counselors at her high school will know exactly what she needs to be taking to make herself competitive. I think joining 4H is great, and shows an interest in something not always typical of many kids. Around here the kids who do FFA (Future Farmers of America) often stand out and compete in many state level competitions. Try not to get too wrapped in the "haven't you done this already" mindset of some of the uber competitive parents, which I know the bay area is famous for.

Meet with the high school counselor, make sure to attend any open houses, do lots of reading, but try not to worry too much about what the others are doing.

Prep courses for ACT can start in sophomore year, and taking challenging coursework but also being involved in a sport/music/theater/4H etc and not burning out are very important.

[gatorsmom]

and taking challenging coursework but also being involved in a sport/music/theater/4H etc and not burning out are very important.

You have gotten some great advice so far but this is key. Taking the hardest courses she can while being passionate about an activity is the best scenario.

I disagree that 8th grade is too early for college prep. Middle school is a great time to figure out what activity they are good at and interested in doing more of. I know a lot of kids use high school to try different activities and sports and that is great for them but if you want to show dedication and passion toward at least one activity, determining what that is in middle school makes it easier to do 4 years of it in high school. An example of this is Boy Scouts. To achieve Eagle Scout which is the highest rank they can get, the kids really are better off starting in middle school. They can get it done in less than 6 years but it’s intense and time consuming. I don’t know much about 4H but some good friends are dairy farmers and their kids are heavily involved. They love it. If your daughter is enjoying it now, encourage her to continue!

If either you or your DH work in an office with corporate lawyers, or if you know of a neighbor or family friend who is a lawyer, ask them if your daughter can meet with them to ask questions about their job. That’s where I’d start.

Best of luck with everything. Preparing for college is a lot of work. I think you are smart to start thinking about it now. I wouldn’t start putting pressure on your DD now though or by the time she’s a junior she’ll be pushing back.

[mom2binsd]

When I said 8th grade it too early, I meant, if they are paying to meet with a "college" person who helps with college applications, it's probably not time to start paying and honestly I don't believe most parents who are capable of research and guiding their kids (like OP who is educated and obviously involved) need to pay someone. That is something that has gotten out of hand. Although the OP did not go to college in the US (I didn't until my masters and the application process in the early 90's was honestly so simple), she and her spouse are educated and I'm sure able to gather lots of great info from this board and their high school. I know the bay area can be insanely competitive but like others have said, finding the balance is really important.

[gatorsmom]

When I said 8th grade it too early, I meant, if they are paying to meet with a "college" person who helps with college applications, it's probably not time to start paying and honestly I don't believe most parents who are capable of research and guiding their kids (like OP who is educated and obviously involved) need to pay someone. That is something that has gotten out of hand. Although the OP did not go to college in the US (I didn't until my masters and the application process in the early 90's was honestly so simple), she and her spouse are educated and I'm sure able to gather lots of great info from this board and their high school. I know the bay area can be insanely competitive but like others have said, finding the balance is really important.

I totally agree with you on the bolded.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Why put so much pressure on them young?
If they don’t choose to go/apply to or get accepted at a highly selective school, it’s not the end of the world either. There are so many great schools so don’t get locked into a single way of thinking for success.
Let your kid call some shots on this journey.
Finally, they change so much in high school, especially if given the opportunity to dabble. Sometimes a class they take in 10th or 11th grade creates a spark of interest that’s totally different than what they were interested in before. I’d have said my kid in 8th grade would be a computer person. Then he discovered music and science. Ds2 loves his statistics class and that’s set him in a different direction too. Throw in his budding love of playing music and he’s a very different kid in 10th grade than 8th.


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[AnnieW625]

I agree with everything SnuggleBuggles said. You don’t need to put a ton of pressure on your kid. I think the Bay Area though is probably way different than the rest of the US though but still planning out a life in 8th grade for something so many years into the future doesn’t make much sense imho.

1. Start with the high school counselor.

2. I like your plan of doing honors English and honors science only for 9th grade. This was our original plan for DD1 (12th grade), but she was unable to do honors biology due to some scheduling issues. Honors/AP wise she has taken honors English since 9th grade (honors 19-10, AP lit 11th, and AP lang 12th), AP
social science since 10th grade (AP World, AP US, and AP govt.), honors anatomy (11th), AP bio (12th), and AP stats (12th). The only minor regret was that we didn’t put her in the honors math track as she wasn’t eligible to take AP calc. this year as a senior, but I didn’t know that was going to be an issue back then (a lot of it stems from the 10th grade algebra 2 year where they had staffing issues with that class so the teacher was nervous about taking kids from the non honors math track). Dd1 has done the following activities: tennis 9-12, dance team 10-12 (competed at national level x2), school ambassador 10-12, and tech crew x 1. Other than tennis captain (12th) she has no other leadership experience. Outside of school she has volunteered at a local diaper bank through my Junior League.

3. We never hired a college counselor.

4. My 4H experience is 29+ years or so old but I joined the organization in 7th grade (1989) and went through 12th grade (1995). I had a great experience. I did a lot of sewing, photography, and general arts and crafts. I never raised livestock, but a lot of people did. I would’ve graduated with a gold star but I never participated in the public speaking demonstration day because for some reason I had a fear of public speaking in middle school and high school and had no clue what to demonstrate. The program also had a record book program which you recorded your year and submitted it to the local organization for review and then it was graded and I won awards at the local level for my book a few times; the year before my senior year it was submitted to the state level, but I didn’t win any big awards at that level. I have no clue if they still do record books or what the requirements are for getting to gold star but with the competitiveness for college admissions in the Bay Area I would definitely have her complete her gold star. The program (at least where I grew up in the Sacramento area) was run by the UC Extension office so maybe start there. IMHO if she raises livestock in the Bay Area that would definitely set her apart from many of her peers.

FWIW: DD1 has applied as a health/human science, kinesiology, or human biology major depending on what was available at each school. She has been admitted to two CSU schools, two Catholic privates, and one out of state (she only applied to one out of state). She is waiting to her from the two UCs she applied to, another private she was deferred to RD, and the last CSU. Dd1 was not going to apply to every UC and originally was only going to apply to one but at the last minute applied to a second. She has excellent choices all around based on where she has been admitted so far. Dd1 goes to a smallish Catholic (diocese supported) high school with just over 100 people in her graduating class.

ETA: I have not listened to a single podcast related to college admissions. I read the colleges that change lives book and found it dated. I have not read Who Gets In and Why (honestly for huge amounts of FOMO and second guessing what our plan was).

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[georgiegirl]

I agree with everyone that an educated and determined parent can do it themselves. Your College Bound Kid podcast is the BEST!!!! The Admissions Beat by Lee Coffin is also good for selective admissions.

I’d recommend the single accelerated math track. Doing geometry, algebra 2, and pre-Calc in one year is nutso. It’s best to take math slower and get a good foundation. Our district starts acceleration early (prealgebra in 5th or 6th) so kids can get a really good foundation.

Also, from my experience, academically so long as you are taking rigorous classes and doing well, at some point you “top out” academically. Someone who is top 10% and someone who is top 1% are pretty much equal. Cool or unique extra curriculars matter more than taking an extra AP class. The girl from our school who got into Stanford early didn’t have the highest grades (B+ in physics, not the strongest in math and science), but she had national level extracurricular activities (represented our state in FBLA and some other things).


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[Percycat]

Is there any reason you don't think your daughter will be successful in the double accelerated math class? If your daughter is a great student and school comes naturally, I would follow her lead. If her current teacher recomments double math and her friends are taking double math and she hasn't had any difficulties in school so far and she wants to take double math, let her. She can always change her mind later when there are more interesting electives.

For what its worth, I was good in all of my subjects and took advanced classes that were available. I had decided I wanted to be a lawyer by the time I was in 9th grade and participated in Mock Trial and UN teams in high school -- as well as the math competition club, orchestra, and diving team. I wound up going to college for Mechanical Engineering and then to law school. I would make sure she develops strong reading, writing and critical thinking skills throughout her education.

My daughter started HS in advanced math and science -- at one time she was super excited to work for NASA and was on various robotics teams from 1st grade through 10th grade. In 10th grade, she also participated in her first theater production. She found a new passion and now wants to be involved in some kind of performing arts career and/or drama speech teacher. [I don't know anything about this and am praying that doors will open for her]. The fact that she had front loaded on accelerateed math and science in middle school and high school gave her the flexibility to take more classes in other areas as a junior and senior in high school.