WWYD - Managing DD1 and her dad

[Philly Mom]

I know that most of you have never had to deal with this. I am divorced with two daughters. DD1 is in 7th and 12.5. DD2 is 10 and in 4th.

We have been divorced for 3.5 years. He was only in therapy in the beginning because it was mandated as part of him being allowed to have custody. He does not think it works and thinks of himself as mentally ok. He has no friends and no social life.

DD1 consistently complains about spending time with him. He makes both kids feel bad about themselves and yells at them for minor things (like spilling milk or dropping a plastic plate). DD1 says she hides in her closet at his house to cry and eat to manage her feelings. He also uses guilt and if they express unhappiness, he will make them feel bad for not loving him.

They have been with me for 14 days straight and tonight she needs to go to his house. She was hysterical. It is not the first time she has had this reaction to going to his house. She will only be with him for three nights before he goes on a work trip and she is with me for 10 days. Even that feels like a lot to her. Normally we have a 60/40 split but they come home to me everyday even on his nights so they are really with me 70% of the time and I have to be there for every transition, which happens on a daily basis during the week.

I am at a loss of what to do and how to support her except to listen. I have suggested that she needs to tell him how she is feeling in the moment, but she rightly believes he will turn it around on her. She believes that it will make things worse and he will consistently come back to the negative encounter saying she doesn’t love and respect him enough. I totally understand why she feels it is easier to do nothing because I did the same for years.

DD2 has similar issues but still wants to be with him. He consistently makes her feel bad and she is always apologizing for things that don’t need it as a result but she is ok to go to his house.

DD1 feels like she needs to protect and take care of DD2 and that adds an additional burden.

I honestly don’t think he realizes what he is doing. He is unhappy and has no peers to lighten his day. It is his unhappiness with himself and me that they are experiencing but that doesn’t excuse it or make it easier.

Any thoughts on how to support them?


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[georgiegirl]

I’m so sorry. That sounds very rough, and I don’t know how to handle it. Does she have a therapist? I assume a professional who deals with kids of divorce can help. Do you have any interest in getting more custody of the kids? She’s old enough that courts will probably take her opinion into account. Does she have a phone where she can call/text you anytime? It makes me sad that your DD’s have to spend time with someone who makes them feel bad (whether intentionally or not.)


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[jgenie]

I am so sorry your family is dealing with this. I don’t have any advice to offer but I am sending P&PTs and mojo your way.

[gatorsmom]

I wish I had more advice to help you but I think one of the best things you can do, is listen to and support your girls. Listen to them and reassure them that they are great people, they their dad is just going through a tough time and expresses it badly, and that he needs help. They can’t fix him and it’s not their responsibility to fix him or make him happy. He’s projecting his negative emotions onto them. Just keep reassuring them that he loves them but he has a hard time showing it because he himself is unhappy and frustrated.

My mom had a hard upbringing but somehow she and her 9 siblings turned into normal, nice people. She always credited it to her loving mother who they could talk things out with and who would build them up. Until your daughters can chose to live with you all the time, maybe this is the only thing you can do.

[firstbaby]

What a hard situation, I am so sorry you and your girls are going through this.

I think you can only focus on the controllables: therapy for both girls asap, perhaps therapy for you for as an outlet and continued guidance on supporting them in healthy ways and potentially petitioning for a change in the custody agreement. Depending on what kind of communication you have with XH, you could say that you know he loves them and wants what’s best, the girls are struggling to feel emotionally safe with him, and ask him to reflect on how could he get more support for himself?

[KpbS]

That is very heavy, I'm sorry about this hard situation.

Is there anything they can do as a distraction (mainly for his mood) when they are with him like watch a certain tv show or play video/card/board games to make the time pass faster and distract him from yelling/being grumpy?

[DualvansMommy]

Oh gosh, I’m so sorry. This is all so hard for you, and of course for DD1 and DD2.

What does DD1 want, do you know? Is it more custodial time with you especially overnights and more of just say/evening visits to her dad?

Focusing on factors your DD can control and for you as well. Which would be therapy for your DD to help navigate her relationship with her dad? Before long, he *will* lose his relationship with his daughters and that is all on your ex, and not on your girls. They’ll need the coping tools to help know and recognize it is nothing to do with who they are as a person.

Does DD1 have evening activities whenever it’s your ex parenting time? That’ll lessen time at his house.

And I’m not sure what is the age mimimim for PA to recognize input from minors to have their say whose time they want to spend more. In NJ it’s 14 in my county, which DS1 is only 18 months away and that is totally the path I can see my kids take if their dad don’t improve his relationship with his sons.

I’m nearing end of my own divorce and have spend years intervening on behalf of our kids how their dad talk/treat our sons. My ex is very similar to yours in that he thinks nothing is needed to improve after lessening his yelling with our kids, and no social life of his own, who doesn’t respond to his own friends outreach of hang out time. So I can only imagine the frustration and lack of control you feel for your girls.

My kids is out 4 nights a week for soccer, basketball or flag football so I can totally see them using that as their out to minimize time spend at their dad’s house. My DS2 is very like your DD 2 who is same age and grade level, still wants to hang out with his dad but totally apologize for a lot of things he doesn’t or shouldn’t be apologizing as well. They’re in therapy now to cope with the news of my divorce, and I can see it’s helping them because they have gotten more direct with their father.


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[StantonHyde]

Yes, at what point can kids have input? I could see your older DD not wanting to leave younger DD by herself though. In that case, then it really is a matter of reducing the amount of time dad spends with them until younger DD can have input. And, yes, therapy for the kids is critical.

[California]

I posted on here a few years back about being the neutral third party for a child who has court ordered visits with a grandparent.

She copes by using distractions that keep her from interacting with the relative- such as watching three movies in one visit, playing video games, doing homework, claiming she has to read a book for school, playing with the dog outside, texting with a friend. When the weather is good she’ll walk to the park. If she needs a quick emergency break she will declare she has a stomach ache and lock herself in the bathroom. Sometimes if the visits are bad she will truly have an upset stomach, and she’ll blame it on food to avoid an argument.

I have Google docs and a spreadsheet tracking everything she tells me before and after visits. Nightmares, impacts on grades, copies of her requests via letters to relative to change visitation, refusal of visits, stomach aches, relative’s alcohol use during visits, therapy and counseling visits. She draws after visits to self-calm and I have copies of those drawings. I highly recommend doing something like this. For example- if she is too upset to do homework for two hours after a visit, record that. You may not be able to ask her directly about visits (I can since I am the requested support person for this child,) but you can certainly record the impact on the child. If you are doing more that your 60%, record that.

ETA: Child and I developed a set post-visit calm down routine that they find very beneficial. It took us some trial and error to figure out what works. First she is with me and she draws and talks and gets out her frustration. Then she snuggles with mom on the couch and they watch a show. That gives her something calming to look forward to. You might want to try to figure out something with your DDs. If the girl I support tries to transition straight from visit to house she ends up fighting with mom or siblings, being moody, and can’t sleep. But with an hour transition routine she really calms down and resets.

In our situation, her mom can’t afford a lawyer. But we just got visitation reduced significantly through a combination of the child being old enough to express her opinion to a mediator and all the records I’ve kept. Next step, as she gets older, is for her to talk to the judge directly.

If you do go back to court, from what I’ve seen with my students, the judge may start by ordering more therapy for your ex and DD. Sounds like that could be a good thing.

[Philly Mom]

I posted on here a few years back about being the neutral third party for a child who has court ordered visits with a grandparent.

She copes by using distractions that keep her from interacting with the relative- such as watching three movies in one visit, playing video games, doing homework, claiming she has to read a book for school, playing with the dog outside, texting with a friend. When the weather is good she’ll walk to the park. If she needs a quick emergency break she will declare she has a stomach ache and lock herself in the bathroom. Sometimes if the visits are bad she will truly have an upset stomach, and she’ll blame it on food to avoid an argument.

I have Google docs and a spreadsheet tracking everything she tells me before and after visits. Nightmares, impacts on grades, copies of her requests via letters to relative to change visitation, refusal of visits, stomach aches, relative’s alcohol use during visits, therapy and counseling visits. She draws after visits to self-calm and I have copies of those drawings. I highly recommend doing something like this. For example- if she is too upset to do homework for two hours after a visit, record that. You may not be able to ask her directly about visits (I can since I am the requested support person for this child,) but you can certainly record the impact on the child. If you are doing more that your 60%, record that.

ETA: Child and I developed a set post-visit calm down routine that they find very beneficial. It took us some trial and error to figure out what works. First she is with me and she draws and talks and gets out her frustration. Then she snuggles with mom on the couch and they watch a show. That gives her something calming to look forward to. You might want to try to figure out something with your DDs. If the girl I support tries to transition straight from visit to house she ends up fighting with mom or siblings, being moody, and can’t sleep. But with an hour transition routine she really calms down and resets.

In our situation, her mom can’t afford a lawyer. But we just got visitation reduced significantly through a combination of the child being old enough to express her opinion to a mediator and all the records I’ve kept. Next step, as she gets older, is for her to talk to the judge directly.

If you do go back to court, from what I’ve seen with my students, the judge may start by ordering more therapy for your ex and DD. Sounds like that could be a good thing.

Thanks! This is helpful. I have suggested some of these but I will reiterate.

To answer some of the other comments. She has tried therapy twice and she feels like she hasn’t matched well with the therapist. Her dad is anti-therapy so I can’t force it. At 14, I think I stop needing his consent if she is ok with it and I think I could get her to it at that age.

DD2 recently asked to see someone. I raised it with him and he wants to talk to DD2 before he will consent. This is making DD2 nervous but hopefully she can just be honest enough with him.

I have a therapist and have met with mine to talk this over and provided that information to the kids. They didn’t love the suggestions my therapist made because it involved minimal confrontation.

I’m going to give them a list of avoidance ideas. They don’t ever go to his house before 6pm but even that seems like a lot for them. The weekends are especially hard.

My life is going so well otherwise, but this is weighing on me. I do worry that his knowledge of my boyfriend and my happiness is making things worse for the kids, but I don’t know how to change that. The kids like my boyfriend, especially DD1.

I wish I could tell my Ex he is screwing up. I saved his relationship with the kids once and constantly built him up but now it would feel like gaslighting to build him up in the same way. I do remind them that he loves them and this is about him and not them. But it doesn’t make it easier.


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