Need to vent about gender stuff

[dogmom]

Feel free to pass by, but I feel this is my safest online forum for venting. I started a new job, so the small talk of getting to know you is part of that including kids, family. I’m in a liberal place, so I don’t feel I need to hide my youngest is trans male, if I also feel it’s wrong to declare that to everyone because it feels like it’s putting an asterisk on his existence. My last area I was in for 6+ years so people knew about the transition, so it wasn’t a decision I had to actively make. So my conversations go something like this:

How many kids you have? 2
Ages and sex? 21 & 17, two boys.
Then, OH! a boy mom, that’s tough, easy, something blah, blah, blah.

The whole thing about this journey with my youngest is a realize how often we talk about gender when 99% of the time it does not matter. Then the same people tend to discount the social construct of gender and refer back to biological stuff. Yes, one has to be aware of the surrounding society that will determine the social environment your child will be in, but that doesn’t mean the child is predetermined to be that.

I’m reading this wonderful book, Eve: How the female body drove 200 million years of evolution. The author is SO good from the start on differentiating between gender and biological sex. The way she does it actually reenforces the arbitrariness of the gender construct. I highly recommend that book.

Even my eldest does not fit many of the gender stereotype unless I choose to look at it through that filter. So when people go on, oh, you know boys, you can’t expect sons to ….. I’m like, no, you let that happen. It’s the same way I feel when people describe how bitchy, moody, not nice their own daughters are and attribute it to sex. I’m like, do you really hate your own gender that much. I know people don’t mean ill with the boy mom thing, and it’s just small talk, but it makes me so sad at times.

[gatorsmom]

I’m sorry you are going through that. People say that prepackaged “oh you have boys! Blah blah blah” because they have heard it before and think it’s an appropriate light-hearted conversation to say to someone new. So many of us don’t know what to say and are intimidated by introductions. We turn to the old standard comments because they feel safe even though we should realize they aren’t culturally appropriate anymore. I’m sorry because that would probably be me making those outdated comments. In less than a few weeks you will no longer be the new employee and all the stale “new person” chitchat will have faded away. And maybe you will have received some apologies from the idiots like me who realized later we made a poor comment choice.

I hope your new job goes well!

[jgenie]

I’m sorry you’re going through this. Like Gatorsmom, I would probably be one of the people inadvertently hurting your feelings. I tend to stick my foot in my mouth in general. My issue is I’m awful at small talk. New people and situations make me extremely nervous and that comes out in tired small talk.

I can relate on the gender norms piece. I have two boys and get the boy generalizations. How sad I must be that I don’t have daughters because boys follow their wives. Yes, some boys follow their wives but some find a way to balance both sides. When they were little it was always about how rambunctious boys were and how I must be so exhausted by them every day. Not to mention the poor me comments when people would ask if we were having more and that I should have another or I would miss out on having a daughter.

[JustMe]

People attribute so much to gender. As a psych major, I remember learning that people talk differently to their babies starting before they are born and continuing immediately after birth depending upon what they are told about the baby's gender. Wow.

My kids are both cis gender, so I can't claim to know what you are going through with your new workplace as well as everywhere else where your family is misunderstood. However, on the inflated gender assumptions alone, I had a hard time even finding toys to buy my daughter when she was younger as so many were just sooo...stereotypical. Its hard to even describe here, but I remember walking into Toys R Us (in the olden days when it existed); and they had a separate boys section and separate girls section....for toys! Most times I walked out with nothing, as none of that was what I was looking for.


ETA-This is totally different, but I knew there was a way I related to your feelings about people's incorrect assumptions...As a single mom through adoption, the assumptions people make are more often incorrect than anything near accurate.

[bcafe]

Oh, the new employee small talk....I just went through that myself. I have 6 children and when people hear that it becomes the "topic". I also get asked " which were harder in the teen years, boys or girls....because I've heard girls are harder". I always reply that each child has had their own journey and I don't pinpoint between gender for "easiness". Sorry, I know this doesn't really relate to your struggles, but I get where you are coming from.

[dogmom]

I’m sorry you are going through that. People say that prepackaged “oh you have boys! Blah blah blah” because they have heard it before and think it’s an appropriate light-hearted conversation to say to someone new. So many of us don’t know what to say and are intimidated by introductions. We turn to the old standard comments because they feel safe even though we should realize they aren’t culturally appropriate anymore. I’m sorry because that would probably be me making those outdated comments. In less than a few weeks you will no longer be the new employee and all the stale “new person” chitchat will have faded away. And maybe you will have received some apologies from the idiots like me who realized later we made a poor comment choice.

I hope your new job goes well!

On, I completely get the small talk angle. It just makes me sad because I wish if we dropped the gender fall backs we could go something like: Oh, two, I’m sure that keeps you busy? What are they interested in?

I’m sure it can bring up more awkward stuff, but that’s OK. I asked a colleague who and one kid how old. Kid was same age as mine, or are they a senior? Are they looking at colleges or doing something else? Or are things still open? Not assuming they are going to college and trying to sound very upbeat about everything and I’m really interested in the answer. Turns out her kid is ASD, so she talked a bit about the options they were looking at to meet their needs. I was that’s so interesting, tell me more about this program. Then we wound up in a discussion about how her husband died when her son was very young and how she immigrated to this country to better support him. It wasn’t a long or heavy conversation. Most of the people at work know the story, so it feels less awkward getting to know people. Like we had a conversation about requests off during the summer and I asked a question because my DS2 needs a minor procedure and that turned into a very organic discussion about him being trans. But then I guess I’m used to asking people I met 3 minutes ago very intrusive and heavy questions at 2 am, so I guess my whole gauge for light vs heavy is off, lol. My DH is always you HATE small talk. He’s not wrong.

PS- Thanks, I am loving the new job. It’s a specialty area I haven’t worked in my hospital and it’s the most diverse unit I’ve ever worked in, lots of people from all over the world. It’s really nice.

[dogmom]

Oh, the new employee small talk....I just went through that myself. I have 6 children and when people hear that it becomes the "topic". I also get asked " which were harder in the teen years, boys or girls....because I've heard girls are harder". I always reply that each child has had their own journey and I don't pinpoint between gender for "easiness". Sorry, I know this doesn't really relate to your struggles, but I get where you are coming from.

lol, six kids. Do you ever go to a cocktail party and just lie? Oh no, no children! I’d be so tempted just so I wouldn’t go through it all.

[dogmom]

People attribute so much to gender. As a psych major, I remember learning that people talk differently to their babies starting before they are born and continuing immediately after birth depending upon what they are told about the baby's gender. Wow.

My kids are both cis gender, so I can't claim to know what you are going through with your new workplace as well as everywhere else where your family is misunderstood. However, on the inflated gender assumptions alone, I had a hard time even finding toys to buy my daughter when she was younger as so many were just sooo...stereotypical. Its hard to even describe here, but I remember walking into Toys R Us (in the olden days when it existed); and they had a separate boys section and separate girls section....for toys! Most times I walked out with nothing, as none of that was what I was looking for.


ETA-This is totally different, but I knew there was a way I related to your feelings about people's incorrect assumptions...As a single mom through adoption, the assumptions people make are more often incorrect than anything near accurate.

THE TOYS!! I realize because we can get them much cheaper than I was growing up in the 60 & 70’s, but in some ways it was less aggressively gendered. There were some girl toys and boy toys, but there were plenty of neutral toys. Tricycles came in red, not with decals and colors for one gender or other. Bricks & balls came in standard colors. Board games only came in one flavor. I remember looking at a marble run when my kids were young and they came in red/blue or pink/lilac. I’m like, it’s a marble run!

Oof! Yeah, I’m sure the assumptions plus the entitlement they feel to know your business is draining.

[erosenst]

So sorry you're going through this. It's not the same ... but sort of is. We have one daughter. She is cis, and has gone through phases of liking "girly" clothes (twirly dresses, then form fitting ones, etc). She is also very petite so looked younger than she was most of her life. It's still a family 'joke' how many people asked her favorite subject in school when she was younger, and she would respond "math" and get shocked responses. She also enjoys watching sports, and can VERY intelligently discuss football and reasonably intelligently discuss both hockey and basketball to the surprise of people sitting around us.

Fast forward to now - where she's a computer science and linguistics double major (at a school also known for competitive sports teams - she only applied to schools where that was available). We *still* get some shocked responses to her major. Ummmm - it's 2024. Really??

I try hard to remember that this is all a commentary on their (the commenters) lived experience, and that a matter of fact response from me will help normalize it - but ... yeah.

Congrats on the new job/hope this phase passes quickly!

[Liziz]

I agree, it amazes me how often our small talk conversation (usually with new people but sometimes others) about our children falls to gender-based discussions. I try so hard to avoid those and redirect a conversation when it goes that way because it drives me crazy. Like you were commenting, I get the most frustrated when people attribute negative behaviors to a specific gender and act as if it's unavoidable and excusable due to their gender.

I'm happy to hear you're loving your new job, and maybe some of these people you're working with will learn a thing or two from you about better ways to make small talk!