Baptism Question - Convoluted

[dcmom2b3]

Have you looked into liberal Episcopalian parishes near you?

[kijip]

But I think for some denominations, Baptist for one and to the Catholic church baptism does have a very different meaning and significance.

Baptists don't baptize babies. I am Catholic and we have attended a Baptist church in recent years (long story) and one of the big differences is that Baptists don't baptize babies.

Re: Catholic Baptism, church policies vary greatly. One church here would want my baptism, reconciliation and communion certificates to baptize my children (they have a staff person that requests copies from out of state for a fee if you don't have them) and both godparents would need to be practicing Catholics. The church we baptized T at and belonged to for awhile only wanted us to want him baptized in the Catholic church and have 1 godparent that was Catholic. We are having F baptized in September at the same church (we buried my mother out of that church) and they are very low key.

[KpbS]

Baptists don't baptize babies. I am Catholic and we have attended a Baptist church in recent years (long story) and one of the big differences is that Baptists don't baptize babies.

Re: Catholic Baptism, church policies vary greatly. One church here would want my baptism, reconciliation and communion certificates to baptize my children (they have a staff person that requests copies from out of state for a fee if you don't have them) and both godparents would need to be practicing Catholics. The church we baptized T at and belonged to for awhile only wanted us to want him baptized in the Catholic church and have 1 godparent that was Catholic. We are having F baptized in September at the same church (we buried my mother out of that church) and they are very low key.

Yes, I know this and that is why I mentioned Baptists specifically b/c of their differences concerning baptism from many other protestant denominations. I was addressing the issue of being baptized w/in a specific denomination and how other denominations/churches might or might not view that baptism as sufficient or having a special meaning w/in a denomination, eg. making you extra Methodist etc.

[wellyes]

DH thought about having DD baptised, despite the fact that we are both athetists (!) because he knew it'd be very meaningful to his mother. The issues brought up in this thread are some of the reasons why that never happened.

I know that you do not have to be religious or spiritual to be a member of a church -- which is one reason why Universalist Unitarians denominations exist in just about every town in New England. We'll look into it, maybe, someday.

[truly scrumptious]

Wow, thank you all so much for the thoughtful input. It has definitely given us a lot to think about.

Yes, I know that. I just mean - so the OP decides to have DC baptized in the Presbyterian church. Does that mean that the DC will somehow be considered more Presbyterian? That baptism will be recognized by the Catholic church as no different than a baptism in a Catholic church. So what's the difference? So I guess what I mean by "just baptized" is - does it have to be qualified by the denomination? For example, does one have to say I was baptized Methodist or can one just say I was baptized?

That was my concern about having DS baptized in a different denomination. I always thought (other than Catholic baptism, and, as I recently learned, Baptists) that baptism in any denomination meant you had been baptized a Christian. Honestly, growing up abroad, I wasn't even aware so many denominations existed! I just didn't want to inadvertently commit DS to a denomination without realizing it!

A Methodist church will not baptise your child? I'm surprised by that. Otherwise, I might try a nondenominational christian church or the UU as Beth suggested.

To clarify, I haven't called any and been told no. But browsing a couple of websites, some of thee=m seemed very particular about baptizing children of "members", which I am clearly not (yet.) I will call around.

We baptized DD into the Catholic Church last winter; we went through the same steps as previous posters stated. DD has two godmothers instead of a godmother and godfather, because honestly we don't have any males close to us who we consider religious, church-going, and that are also Catholic. One godmother is Catholic, the other is not, but is a very devout and honorable Christian who I'm proud to have as her godmother. We had a hard time picking godparents because I didn't want to just pick my or DH's siblings 'for show,' as I think a lot of people do (it's kind of what's expected a lot of times). So I may have pissed off some siblings by not picking them, when they had picked me as godmother for their kids, but I don't think they're really religious or church-going and I didn't want to be a hypocrite.
I agree; I am Catholic but would never think a child would go to hell for not being baptized.
We have some friends who've had their kids baptized because it's the 'thing to do' (they want to avoid future problems/ roadblocks when the kids are in school). I disagree with that and think that you should baptize your kid knowing full well all the significance of it. I was pretty emotional at DD's baptism; it meant something to me, and I wouldn't want other parents just going through the motions.

We will have a very similar situation with family, incl siblings expecting to be godparents. But I believe that the godparents are people who will serve as lifelong guides to my son, and want to be sure that they are people whose life philosophy I agree with. (I also read somewhere that godparents are defined as "mature, responsible adults who advise the child..." - that immediately eliminates some family members )
The baptism is definitely not a "thing to do" for us, and certainly not an insurance policy for school/salvation/what have you.

You should look for a more liberal Catholic parish. Ours is considered pretty liberal and while it did require that we be members to have our DS baptized there (we were new to the area), it didn't matter that my DH was Baptist. They really didn't care. We took a class of a couple of hours to understand the symbolism and the history behind it, signed some papers and that was it. Joining the parish didn't require anything either other than filling out some papers.

I realize it seems like a pain, but the Catholic Church is pretty strict with its rules. Some see that as annoying but I find it comforting to be affiliated with an institution that doesn't bend it's rules to be popular or trendy. And, btw, if you haven't been to a Catholic Baptism, they are lovely and rich in historic traditions. But I could be biased because we are devout Catholics .

It's good to know how the process works. In general I don't have a problem with the formalities, but if it requires something like "having been an active church attendee for the past few years" or something like that, it is obviously too late! If the membership is something we can do now and baptize DS, that would work better for us. And will hopefully open the door to a deeper relationship with the church - we've been talking for some years now about re-connecting with the church and because of what we were met with while planning the wedding have been reluctant to reach out. I guess we're just hoping to find an open and welcoming community. And we'll only find that if we reach out. Thanks for the encouragement.

[truly scrumptious]

for most of it at least. The protecting against hell part is part of it for the Catholics but it's not the sole reason.
I am like the PP's sister, DH is Catholic and I am not. We had to take classes at the Catholic church and join the parish where we had DD and DS baptized. One thing I learned in the class was that a baptism in any protestant church still "counts" as far as the Catholics go.
And I agree that you should think about why you want them baptized. For me, I am not particularly religious and consider myself more spiritual as well. And I honestly would not have been opposed to just not having our kids baptized. For us it was a nice thing as a sort of family event for DH's family and it's just something DH always wanted to do for his kids. (FTR- DH is not religious AT ALL even after being raised in the church, being an altar boy, getting confirmed, etc.) So I just held my tongue in the classes when we got to the part about Catholicism being the only true Christian religion and did what we needed to to make it official.

We have some of the same reasons - family event, DH feels more strongly about it. But I think I was unclear in my original post. When I said I wasn't particularly religious, I may have under-represented our beliefs. We are definitely a Christian household, we believe in and pray to God, etc. DH was brought up in Latin America - where Catholicism is ingrained in the culture. And is evidently much less stringent than some Catholic churches here (in his experience.) He has a wonderful interpretation on many Catholic beliefs, and I would love DS to grow up learning both Dad's and Mom's beliefs that complement each other (and making his own choices and developing his own interpretations as he grows.) So this baptism means a lot to us a foundation for his Christianity - which is why we want it to be in a church that reflects our outlook - open, inclusive, flexible.

What I don't really understand is baptizing a baby outside of a specific faith..... when I say I don't understand, I'm not judging, faith is *so* personal. I'm just curious!

You're absolutely right - faith is very personal. I was brought up thinking of all Christians as the same, and in a very multi-religious country (and am the product of an inter-faith marriage ) So I consider my faith/spirituality as something I carry around with me. And for me, it doesn't matter through what means I pray to God - be it Protestant or Catholic church, Hindu temple, holding hands around a dinner table, meditation, etc. I am praying to the same God, who is loving and welcoming of everyone. That's why it doesn't matter to me through what denomination DS is baptized, though I would naturally be able to teach him more about the faith I am most familiar with (my own) and provide him a foundation in it. When he grows, I hope he will make his own choices about how to follow his beliefs.

Just a BTDT, we know what you guys are going through, we're from the Boston area too, and my family has gone through what your going through with the churches for years (they refused to baptize me when I was little, because they didnt' feel my mother attended church enough, and I have many other stories as well, lol). My girls were both baptized in the catholic church and if you call around to different parishes (especially the further you get away from the city) they are much more welcoming. We weren't originally members of my church, and they didnt' care, there were no questions asked, just when do you want her baptized, and that was it. So, if you did want to use the Catholic Church call around and if you don't Methodist and UU are great as well.

Thank you so much - it is so encouraging to know we're not alone. I am feeling inspired to get out there and look for a church that we feel we belong in

I personally feel that you are better off baptising a child in the religion of one of their parents, simply because they would naturally have a foundation in that faith growing up w/ parents who know about it. This doesn't prohibit the child from chosing their own branch of religion when they are grown. But, obviously we each make our own decisions.

I totally agree - as evidenced by my comments above.

Thanks for all the great comments and info. You guys are wonderful.

[rlu]

Have you looked into liberal Episcopalian parishes near you?

This ^. DH is Catholic, I'm Episcopalian. We were married in the Episcopal church and DS was baptized Episcopalian as an infant. Similar to my understanding of the Catholic tradition, baptism is eventually followed by First Communion (need to consult my minister about timing on this for DS) and then Confirmation when the preteen/teen decides to commit to the church through a renewal of their baptismal vows.

I didn't not follow up on whether DS's baptism is recognized by the Catholic Church. It is my understanding our marriage is not, as we did not have our vows "blessed". However, the Catholic minister we talked to is "pre Vatican II" per DH.

[kijip]

I didn't not follow up on whether DS's baptism is recognized by the Catholic Church. It is my understanding our marriage is not, as we did not have our vows "blessed". However, the Catholic minister we talked to is "pre Vatican II" per DH.

The Catholic church recognizes both civil marriages and marriages in other denominations.

Re: baptism, at least at our old church any Christian baptism allows adults to be fast tracked a bit for RCIA, not only Catholic baptism. My husband was baptized at the Presbyterian church and if he opted to do RCIA it would take a little less time than had he not be baptized. Though, it is still the better part of a year. Which I fully support, I have heard of very short RCIAs and that seems bizarre to me but maybe that is because I remember the long hours, months and years spent on religious education as I child and am jealous of adult converts (just kidding).

[Gena]

The Catholic church recognizes both civil marriages and marriages in other denominations.

This is true when both spouses are non-Catholic. Catholics are obligated to either marry in the Catholic Church OR have the marriage convalidated ("blessed") by a priest OR get a dispensation from these rules. The PP indicated that her husband is Catholic, therefore these rules apply to their marriage.

Rlu - if you do later decide to have your marriage convalidated by the Catholic Church, it is often a simple procedure, although some parishes may require a marriage prep class or counseling session. Some couples like to treat this event as a "second wedding" with all that entails. Other couples just do a small, private ceremony with a few family members. Your son's baptism is recognized by the Catholic Church.

[dogmom]

I would suggest you attend some masses at the Paulist Center in Boston if you are from the area. Many people have given you good advice. I attended the Paulist Center for years and found it a very religious, social justice oriented place where the congregation tries to live the gospel. And that is the most important thing to them. I suspect you would feel much more welcome there.

http://www.paulistboston.com/